I met with two corporate attorneys at a highly respected (and very expensive) law firm today. I ran my idea of borrowing money via my corporation and using the capital for future deals, as well as, borrowing from the corporation to refinance/settle my existing debt.
My corporation would be used to continue doing real estate and other types of investments with the added asset protection, tax advantages and borrowing ability that I did not have as a sole proprietor.
As far as the legalities of borrowing from the corporation… They said as long as I am not lying on any applications and the personal loan from the corporation to me is legitimate (promissory note, payments, reasonable interest rate, etc) then there is nothing wrong with borrowing money from the corporation.
The attorneys said that public companies have rules against the directors/officers borrowing money from the corporation, citing Sarbanes-Oxley Act. However, with private companies engaging in this practice properly is OK and is not too uncommon.
The corporate attorneys also gave me lots of good advice on how to structure things the right way and general tips for doing business through a corporation - properly capitalizing, dealing with shareholders, buy/sell agreements, officer and director duties, etc. I took good notes and have a list of homework to do.
The corporation brokers have been doing a great job helping me with the process of setting everything up. The process is taking longer than I thought but things are finally starting to happen. I’m almost ready for the next step.
But before I take on a bunch of new debt, I need to have a good plan for repayment…
I have come to appreciate the power of leverage. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… leverage is a beautiful thing. However, I must treat it with great care, unlike I’ve been in the past. This is my chance to show that I am finally learning my lessons.
216 Comments
February 21st, 2007 at 5:20 am
By the way, I now have some technical and moderation help around here, so please be patient as they are still learning the ropes here…
February 21st, 2007 at 5:30 am
It is well settled that California courts can pierce the corporate veil when both of the following two requirements are met:
(1) Unity of Interests – The shareholders in question have treated the corporation as their “alter ego,” rather than as a separate entity; and
(2) Inequitable Result – Upholding the corporate entity and allowing for the shareholders to dodge personal liability for its debts would “sanction a fraud or promote an injustice.” Automotriz del Golfo de California v. Resnick (1957)
In California, courts apply a factor-by-factor test to determine whether “alter-ego” liability is appropriate. These factors are laid out in the case of Associated Vendors Inc. v. Oakland Meat Packing, Co. (1962).
1) Did the individual Defendant(s) act in bad faith?
2) Did the individuals contract with another with the intent to avoid performance by using a corporate entity as a shield against personal liability?
3) Did the individuals divert assets from a corporation by or to a stockholder or other person or entity to the detriment of creditors?
4) Domination of the corporation by a few key individuals?
5) Did the individuals and corporation use the same office or business location?
6) Did the individuals and the corporation employ the same attorney?
7) Did the individuals use the entity to procure labor, services and merchandise for another person or entity?
8) Did the individuals fail to adequately capitalize the corporation?
9) Did the individuals fail to maintain minutes or adequate corporate records?
10) Will there be an inequitable result if the court fails to pierce?
The burden of establishing alter-ego liability is on the plaintiff. Absent factors supporting individual liability, courts are reluctant to pierce the corporate veil because “alter-ego liability is fundamentally at odds with the general rule that de jure (ie. as a matter of law) corporation is a legal entity separate from its founders and owners; and the law specifically permits owners to incorporate a business for the very purpose of shielding them from its liabilities.” Las Palmas Associates v. Las Palmas Center Associates; Rutter Guide.
However, California courts have “followed a liberal policy of applying the alter-ego doctrine where the equities and justice of the situation appear to call for it.” First Western Bank & Trust Co. v. Bookasta (1968). In practice, the alter-ego doctrine is usually applied “where there are only a few shareholders and they have not respected their corporation’s separate identity.” When evaluating alter-ego liability, courts do not make a distinction between forms of corporations, and the doctrine applies equally to non-profit corporations and for-profit corporations.
Case References: Associated Vendors, Inc. v. Oakland Meat Packing Co.; Automotiz del Golfo de California v. Resnick; Las Palmas Associates v. Las Palmas Center Associates; First Western Bank & Trust Co. v. Bookasta
Note: The information contained is not legal advice and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. Our contact information is included and we always offer a free consultation. For more information about ALTER-EGO LIABILITY or PIERCING THE CORPORATE VEIL other areas of CORPORATE law, please visit http://www.adishianlaw.com, ALG intern Jonathan Tam contributed to this article. Copyright ALG 2005.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:31 am
The idea that anyone would extend credit to you, corporate or otherwise is just horrifying to me. Furthurmore, anyone who would purchase stock issued by a corporation that you have any part of would have to be out of their mind.
I’m a hater, and I’m proud of it.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:42 am
Even if you manage to get this set up (and frankly, I think it’s all a sick joke), NO LENDER NOT SUFFERING FROM MENTAL INCAPACITY WOULD LOAN YOU OR ANY SHELL CORPORATION OF YOURS ANY MONEY.
Period!
February 21st, 2007 at 5:46 am
Ok.
Where does the Corp. get the money to
loan to you?
“… borrowing ability that I did not have as a sole proprietor..”
Seems to me you had PLENTY of “borrowing ability” and
that, plus your inability to handle it properly, was what got you into this mess to begin with.
How will borrowing more help?
You can”t borrow your way to prosperity, except via a pyramid scheme (illegal.)
February 21st, 2007 at 5:47 am
Borrow your way out of debt…call me old fashion but I don’t think you’ve learned a thing. What ever happened to and honest days pay for an honest days work. Go get a job.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:53 am
I think you should do detailed cash flow projections etc. before you take on any additional debt. You know, the sort of thing that Tim made you do, that if you had done before-hand, you would have realized your plan wasn’t even close to break-even.
If you take the time to make a detailed business plan, with hard numbers based on real data, I think you will have much more success. No guessing! If you don’t know how much an expense will be, find someone who does.
By the way, don’t do something really really silly like trying to take on more debt before you have a plan. Plan first, act second.
It’s not the enthusiasm you lacked last time around. It was the planning. Also, you need to be focused on making money in return for providing value. Focus on turning your skills and talents into value that will improve society in general. Investors don’t normally have to add value to make money, but remember, if you’re doing zero-down, then you’re not a real investor; you’re running a business, and if you want to make money, you need to create value.
Good luck!
February 21st, 2007 at 5:55 am
Where do you get the funds to continue to survive and pay attorneys?
February 21st, 2007 at 5:58 am
Wow….where’d you find the money to pay for “expensive” legal counsel? Did they ask you to pay upfront and in cash?
I, along with many here, think this idea is hugely foolish and rife with insurmountable barriers. On it’s face, it seems like bank fraud all over again–just more blatant this time. The key question for me (and probably anyone looking at loan applications or a business plan) is what is your core competency?
Put another way…how does being on the wrong end of over 2.2 million in debt (both secured and unsecured) make you the best place for the bank to park their money?
I think it would take someone as naive as you to even try and make that sales pitch, and it would take Houdini himself to actually pull something like that off.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:59 am
LET’S SEE HOW YOU “leverage” IN JAIL.
FRESH MEAT~
February 21st, 2007 at 6:04 am
Casey,
I’m unconvinced you can borrow your way out of debt. I still believe this corporate credit thing is a scam. Of course it’s taking longer, that’s how scam artists string you along. They’re not asking for more money are they?
Take care otherwise. Have you been looking for a job? Income is what you need, not more debt.
Nigel
February 21st, 2007 at 6:05 am
I still do not get it. Who would trust you any money?
Even the wildest stock market speculation is safer than betting on you!!!
I would say way too risky, looking at your trackrecord.
I predict: You will utterly fail at this. It’s a common mistake to believe that leverage is working for you. In most cases it will work against you. That is why most speculators using leverage utterly fail (as you will).
Read my lips casey: YOU WILL FAIL!!
February 21st, 2007 at 6:06 am
Your eagerness to take on more debt is astounding. Think this through big guy. Any lender that would be willing to lend to your corporation will require your personal and unconditional guarantee on the debt. Don’t think for a minute you will be able to hide behind corporate protections to shield yourself from liability for the money you borrow. The banks (and private investors) know your type and will protect themselves.
What I really want to caution you about is this concept of borrowing money from your coporation. I hope your corporate advisor has explained the IRS implications of such loans. In order to qualify as a loan, advances to you from your corporation must bear an interest rate and include a plan for repayment. Given your track record, I highly doubt you would be able to convince the IRS of your ability to repay such a ‘loan’. In the absence of a source of repayment, the IRS will treat your ‘loan’ as a ‘distribution’, subject to tax as income. You’d have been better off to just borrow the money directly from the bank. In the scenario I just described, your corporation will still the bank all of the money and you’ll owe the IRS tax on the money to boot.
Do some research before jumping in this time, Casey. You’re adding a whole new layer of expense and headaches to a business venture that you’re not good at yet.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:16 am
Whoever told you it was illegal doesnt know what they are talking about. Your lawyer is correct. One problem though. You are never gonna secure any type of financing for this corporation without having your personal credit checked. These types of accounts typically dont report to your personal credit, but they are going to want to see it first. I arrange Business lines for people through companies like First Horizon, American Express, Advanta Bank, and Wells Fargo, I also arrange SBA Loans. THEY ALL WILL PULL YOUR PERSONAL CREDIT. This idea will not work. Stop wasting time/money on it.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:29 am
Lessons? What kind of lessons are you learning, Casey?
At this point, I’m convinced the people who are willing to lend you “2 billion dollars” are the Russian Mafia. Nobody can be that stupid, except for them.
Here’s a hint, Casey: you are not in Uzbekistan anymore. You are in a country where laws are made to be respected. We all know you can bribe, corrupt and rape the law at will in your country. We know over there a simple “I don’t think I should be in jail” and a couple of dollars to your local constable will keep you out of jail. America is different.
You are a shame and a disgrace to America. You, a single immigrant, have embezzled more than two million dollars. Illegal immigrants actually contribute to our economy. People like you should be expelled, and never let back.
The fact that you are proud of defrauding our institutions is even worse.
I’ll write my congressman and I’ll ask - no, scratch that - I’ll ORDER him to investigate you and send you back to your miserable little country. People like you have no place in America. Greedy, corrupt, stupid, and remorseless.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:34 am
See, the problem is that at this point, any corporation controlled by you that lends money to you is going to be considered irresponsible per se. You have no assets, no income, and no ability to repay. This kind of self-dealing is pretty good evidence for piercing the corporate viel.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:36 am
Of course you can borrow money from a corporation. But you seem to be ignoring the key point. Where is the corporation going to get money? Any bank is going to look at the corporation financials to look at their ability to pay back a loan. And ultimately, they are going to have personal guarantees by the shareholders (you) to fall back on.
Why do you continue to ignore this point? What bank is going to lend a corporation money that you are part of?
Could you just answer this question this one time?
February 21st, 2007 at 6:43 am
How exactly did you pay for these “very expensive” lawyers…??
With every new post I become more convinced that this entire blog is a hoax.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:43 am
Well congrats there. I just have a couple of general questions for you. What service/product are you offering through your corporation??? Although Im no business type I have noticed that corporations are usually established for reasons other than just to borrow more money, cause you always have that meddlesome little paying back themoney thingy. Once your corporation has been established how do you intend to fund these pipe dreams since your credit is totally trashed?? If this is a viral marketing campaign I really have to give you props, you’ve kept it up longer than any other I’ve ever seen. If not, I have to say that I hope it’s very comfy in your delusional little world.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:51 am
Casey,
The Corp Credit site has SCAM written all over it, don’t you see it?
This HAS to be illegal. You can’t transfer your private debts to a shell corporation can you?
February 21st, 2007 at 6:54 am
“Leverage” is not equivalent to “gambling with other people’s money”, which is what you’ve done in the past, and plan to do in the future.
Anyone who lends you money deserves to lose it though, so I don’t really feel sorry for them. It cracks me up that these banks were handing out 7% loans to people like yourself and letting you flat out gamble with it. They take all the risk, you reap most of the rewards. Oh wait, it’s not really their money, they just re-package that garbage loan and sell it off to someone else, who in turn misrepresents its risk and sells it in securitized form to some poor trusting pension fund. So basically the banks are doing the same thing you are, using “leverage” so they can make a fast buck on someone else’s dime (well, make a buck on someone else’s grand).
That buck has to stop somewhere though… when everyone’s making money on the upside it’s all gravy, no one starts asking questions until you start hitting that downside. Who’s going to pick up that check then? Hmmm, guess it will be those people who worked hard all their lives at real jobs and saved and retired with a pension… a pension that conveniently has your “low risk” loan in it earning them a sweet 4% year.
Oh well, guess they can just get another job when that money disappears. They worked fifty years they can work another twenty, right? It’s all good.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:58 am
So you convince somebody to loan money to your company. What are you going to tell them the money is going to be used for? Real Estate investments?
Then you take the money and loan it to yourself?
That seems like more fraud.
In any event, I want the name of any company that would loan you money. I want to short their stock!
February 21st, 2007 at 7:05 am
Tremendous MR CEO! Please do let us know when you’re going to open up this business. Many of us are just waiting for the opportunity to do some business with you.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:11 am
I’m curious…how much did you pay these expensive attorneys to give this advice. What’s in it for them. How are they paid in this case?
February 21st, 2007 at 7:16 am
Leverage is a beautiful thing. But, as you have shown, leverage works in both directions. When an asset depreciates, it is YOU that inccurs 100% of the depreciation (unless you short sale).
Did you get any advice on how you will get corporate credit? If I am a lender, I want to see a business plan so that I know the risk that I am incurring. Also, was it explained that your corporation will pay corporate taxes and then you will have to pay personal income taxes on what you pay yourself?
February 21st, 2007 at 7:16 am
How will the corporation make money to loan?
February 21st, 2007 at 7:17 am
Cool, I’m glad you got some help around here so you can focus on your priorities. You got that homeless dude to help you out didnt you. I hope you’re paying him well =0) .
Wishing you well.
vQ
February 21st, 2007 at 7:17 am
I’m a cpa with many small business owners and their corps as clients - and 20+ years experience working with them.
Financing questions come up all the time for my clients. I have NEVER once seen a situation where a bank, or anyone else, will loan a small closely-held corporation money without looking to the shareholders for guarantees and without evaluating the credit worthiness of the shareholders.
But maybe you’re on to something new. Afterall, borrowing money that you cannot afford to pay back is your clearly expertise.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:17 am
You said the atty’s said it was OK to borrow if it for legit debt. But what if that debt, although legit, was gotten by illegal means?
February 21st, 2007 at 7:25 am
OK, so where did you get the money to consult with your “expensive” attorneys?
You live your life like you are some rich tycoon, with a sense of entitlement, when in fact you are a “looser” and a fraud.
I can’t wait until the FBI comes a knocking.
Get a job!
February 21st, 2007 at 7:27 am
A little detective work…
CORP BROKERS INC = ROBERT L. WHITE
http://www.google.com/maps?q=3.....p;ct=title
Going to the Better Business Bureau and putting in the address of CBI yields “ROBERT L WHITE”
Putting that name into the SEC filings and I find this:
http://www.sec.gov/litigation/.....r17196.htm
Millionaire.com?
Securities Fraud?
February 21st, 2007 at 7:33 am
Ok, so what will you do with the corporation? I hope you do something that will bring you out of the negative!!
Anyways Casey, I believe in you, and I have since the beginning of this blog. I hope you do well except this time around I hope you take it easy, be alittle conservative and not as aggressive as you’d like to be.
My husband works with an investor who buys 8 foreclosures a year. One at a time. He alots 6-8 weeks per house for renovations. Now, this man is very smart and he knows what he is doing. He has been in business for a long time. He makes anywhere from 20k to 35k per house. He could make more money but he chooses to list the houses way below market value so that he can sell the homes
immediatley.
I think you should check out the SBA.Gov and look into writing a business plan most banks will ask for one especially when trying to take out a large loan.
Good Luck!
February 21st, 2007 at 7:44 am
That was a realistic and sane post, Casey. I believe that increasing leverage is the best option for you. I am convinced that highly respected lawyers would advice a barely-out-of-teens speculator with 2 million dollars in debt to set up a corporation to amass more debt.
I am sure that other posters here also will be supportive and nurturing. I’m now off to read and believe the latest AEI white paper on how to solve the Iraq “dilemma”. I believe that nice and sensible Mr. Cheney just may have figured out how to make Middle East resemble Denmark by next Thanksgiving! With flat taxes and privatized pensions.
I’ll see you at Club Cloud Cuckoo Land when we all are millionaires, Casey. There will be solar-powered robots tending the emerald lawns and pouring sweet mojitos while we loll on giant satin pillows and trade jokes about the bad old times.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:45 am
And how exactly do you plan on paying back your “corporation” on this magical loan with no job?? Casey, I think it’s time to get your head out of the clouds, get a job, and start paying down your debt. Quit borrowing….it’s not the answer.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:52 am
Holy cow, you actually took some real advice from professionals?
What is this world coming to?
Now a few more questions:
1. What are the interest rates on these new corporate lines of credit?
2. Do you have to sign for them in your personal as well as your corporate capacity?
3. Do you really think banks ignore the credit records of officers and directors of small corporations?
4. How are you going to pay back your corporation, with interest, for the money its borrowing, with interest, to loan to you?
Don’t get me wrong, corporations can be very useful, but you need to treat the corporate structure as a tool with some costs and some benefits, not as something magical that’s going to fundamentally change your situation.
Now are these lawyers going to do the paperwork for you, or are you going to go ahead and do that yourself?
Good luck!
February 21st, 2007 at 7:55 am
He should be sent to jail because at least then he MIGHT learn and get some real life experience not just this guru bullshit he believes.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:56 am
I hope you end up like this guy.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....k21m0.html
February 21st, 2007 at 7:57 am
I notice you’re not identifying this “highly respected (and very expensive) law firm”.
And I also notice a distinct absence of figures.
Presumably you’ve worked out how much the corporation would need to be making in pure profit in order to:
(a) lend yourself the six-figure sum you need to stave off your creditors;
(b) pay yourself a sufficiently high salary in order to ensure that you can reimburse the above loan and still have basic living expenses left over?
Sounds like a pretty tall order for a start-up, especially when it’s operating in a rapidly declining market. At the very least, it would need someone genuinely competent in charge of operations - it clearly can’t be you, so do you have anyone in mind? And what do you propose to pay them?
February 21st, 2007 at 8:02 am
I see. So you are paying off your existing debt with borrowed money? I see no problem with this. None whatsoever. A crafty investor, this Casey Serin.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:02 am
“But before I take on a bunch of new debt, I need to have a good plan for repayment…”
LOL. You are too much. You know, as well as everyone else does, you will never pay that back.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:04 am
I don’t think you should borrow any more money. You are in deep enough.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:05 am
SIGH! You going to take out more debt to pay down your personal debt? So isn’t this like borrowing from paul to pay peter all over again? Do you know that a corporation must do legit business? What business will your corporation be conducting? I have started S-corp, an LLC, and whenever I need to borrow or extend credit line with the bank, guess what they do? They check on my background, ensure my business has steady revenue (ie, checking on lease, rental income, sales…). How will your corporation generate revenue? If you truly want to be legit, then you better come up with ways to generate revenue first, not thinking about capital, borrowing $. Suddenly you make me very sick.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:08 am
Casey,
Well you are persistent. Let’s see… how to put this… Okay, I’ve got it. NOBODY at any legitimate institution is going to loan you anything ever. No banker is that stupid or ignorant. Try it yourself. Google your name and see what you get. Your corporation has no products, no history (no matter how long it has been ‘aged’ on the shelf registry) no income, no nothing. Call it whatever you want, the tiniest bit of research will reveal it to be “Casey Serin Inc”. You are basically asking others to fund further speculations in real estate. You have a long and consistent record of not repaying anyone anything. Soon there will be legal judgements pending against you. They will attach anything you own of value even your “corporation”. You’re busted.
“Yeah, but this time it’s gonna be different…. This time I’m gonna make it big…. This time I’m gonna make all you doubters, 9-5 cubers, and wimps eat your words. I’m attracting success. I’m failing forward. I’m daring to be great.”
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah
Just open the mail and get on with your day. Deal with the Utah missing check. Today. Deal with the short sale packet for New Mexico. Today. Now.
Then you can play in fantasyland after your work is done.
coyote
February 21st, 2007 at 8:17 am
So basically you are throwing gasoline into the fire.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:22 am
Two things immediately leap to mind. The first is why you don’t name the lawyers and the firm? Their identities are hardly a secret, or is there some sort of reason they would try to distance themselves from you? The second question is how could you get to talk to them without a retainer? I’ve worked extensively with lawyers in the past and at no time could I get any real advice without shelling out a grand or two in advance. Seeing as how you can’t seem to scrape together a few hundred dollars to pay your bills, how is this possible?
February 21st, 2007 at 8:23 am
Take on more debt to get out of debt. Casey, you are the new paradigm.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:30 am
Here’s the question though… what financial institution is going to lend money to a brand new corporation consisting of one officer who has sub-500 credit scores 2M of delinquent debt and virtually no positive track record?
February 21st, 2007 at 8:33 am
So you want to borrow money from your own corporation which borrowed money from a bank in order to pay off your loans of borrowed money from the past? So in the end there is still an entity (of which you are the sole owner…i.e. the one who will be held responsbile) that is still in debt.
Am I understanding this right?
P.S. Why on earth do you need technical/moderation help? I thought you were a web programmer…do you really not have the skills to run a very simple web log? I sure hope this is a volunteer position and they’re not expecting a paycheck.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:34 am
I wouldn’t loan you a dime.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:36 am
Man you are determined to get dad all steamed up!
I’m retty sure your CPA might have a different view of the tax advantages of a corporation (C corp) versus an S-corp or an LLC. Even Vinnie knows you don’t want to get taxed twice… wait, they only tax profits. Never mind. I gotta bike to build.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:45 am
Casey
Which lawfirm?
Where did the money come from to pay the retainer?
How much was it?
Not haing, just curious.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:49 am
Wow! I can’t wait to hear the responses to this?
Casey, is surely looking for a way to work the system!
February 21st, 2007 at 8:59 am
Ah, *more* credit, just what you need….
February 21st, 2007 at 9:03 am
Casey,
Forming a corporation that has a legitimate business purpose and borrowing from it with the intent to pay it back is legitimate.
If, by way of purpose your corporation is formed to get you out of debt so you can borrow from it, that is not a legitimate business purpose. And what matters here is not whatever paperwork you file as to the purpose of your business, but rather how your corporation acts. If you conduct a legitimate business and borrow from it during the due course of business, you will be OK.
But if it looks like the primary purpose of your business is to transfer your personal debt you have “punctured the corporate veil” which will be used to tie you to the new corporate debt you take on.
Furthermore a corporation is another body separate from yourself. As the Chairman of the Board of this new corporation, you are required to act in the best interest of the corporation. It is your FIDUCIARY DUTY and legal responsibility. As the Chairman of the corporation , you will need to decide if it is reasonable to loan Mr. Casey Serin money and if it is in the best interest of the corporation.
If it is not reasonably in the best interest of the corporation, Casey, then you are committing corporate fraud. Moving from simple housing fraud to corporate fraud would basically move this from a petty crime to a signficant corporate crime with the potential for substantial jail time.
By now I know you will justify your status by saying “well, I’m ok because I intend to pay it back”….which should be completed with your recent qualifiation of that phrase “…if I am able to pay it back”.
If I borrow $1M from the bank and bet it all on a single number in roulette with 39 to 1 odds and lose…but tell the bank that I intended to pay them back if I won, do you think that would seem reasonable. INTENT IS MEASURED not by you half-hearted words but rather by your real-world actions. And be sure that all the actions you take when you form your corporation and try to shelf your debt will look just like what it is - corporate fraud. And just because a lawyer says that its been done doesn’t mean the way you are going about doing it is or will be seen as legal.
Seriously Casey, just get rid of the houses, file bankruptcy, discharge as much of your debt as possible and THEN form a corporation. It may take a bit longer, which I don’t think your ADD/ADHD mind can handle, but it will save you alot more money, time and keep you out of harms way.
I’m still a hater, but seriously Casey, now your getting into deep, troubling waters.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:12 am
Casey:
What are you smoking? STOP STOP STOP playing games with fly by night corporate brokers and law firms (however reputable). WHO THE F$CK cares how many little corporations you start and what you know. NO firm will give you money (all they need to do is google you, if they don’t, thousands of your readers will spam them with emails the moment you mention their name). Even more critically, You owe ten$ of thou$and$ to hard a$$ firms as WFC, CashCall etc. While you play little games with your corporate shells, these firms are in the process of sicking their collection dogs on you.
Just declare BK, rebuild your life, and dream these stupid dreams of your in 2015.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:24 am
casey!! i do not understand how you still want to be involved in real estate, we must learn form our mistakes but i guess you dont, i can only wish you luck , and i hope all this nightmare is over soon
a friend from west-sacramento
February 21st, 2007 at 9:29 am
Casey,
What institution is going to lend unsecured money to a asset-less corporation w/ no operating history or tax returns, no income-producing business, and a manager/pres/ceo that when googled comes up as the poster boy for loan fraud?
Please let us know so I can short their stock.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:33 am
Casey,
I know you are very busy but I can’t imagine that anyone would be more knowledgable than you. I have a situation with two homes and I will not be able to keep the payments up. The details are complicated. Do offer one on one advice? What is your fee? I am really down to the wire and must act soon. If you have time, please email me. Thank You & Good Luck!
February 21st, 2007 at 9:34 am
So how much are you planning to borrow? To continue your plan of buying real estate, you’d have to borrow more than you need to cover your current indebtedness, and you might *gasp* need to put money down on something. Even if this is indeed somehow legal, you won’t be getting rid of any debt as much as moving it around. (and adding more)
You need to seriously consider that you are very bad with money and very bad with real estate. You’ve screwed up basically everything you’ve attempted so far, and the chance that you’re going to magically get everything right is slim.
If you get at all financially stable, stay away from real estate until you have a f%*#ing savings. (and until the statute of limitations for your crimes has run out)
And finally, living on debt money does NOT equal ‘financially stable!!!’ GET A JOB
February 21st, 2007 at 9:36 am
Nice to see you’ve finally gotten yourself some competent advice on this issue. Also nice to see that most of the hysterical posters on this site are completely full of it!!! You will survive this mess and come out squeaky clean … (don’t worry too much about your credit report).
Did you give any thought to living in one of your houses and trying to save it from the foreclosure trash heap? It could be your last chance for awhile to own your own place…
February 21st, 2007 at 9:38 am
“I ran my idea of borrowing money via my corporation and using the capital for future deals, as well as, borrowing from the corporation to refinance/settle my existing debt.”
——————————————————
Tell the truth, Casey; did the attorneys snicker when they heard your idea?
February 21st, 2007 at 9:43 am
Have the “great” corporation brokers given you any idea of what kind of credit people/corporations in your situation have gotten (without a personal guarantee, which in your case would be worthless)? I can’t figure out what kind of lender would give you that credit based on a corporation (aged or not) that has no history of income, and no assets. Which reminds me, pay attention to the “properly capitalizing” part the lawyers mentioned–it’s important. I am a lawyer, but am not sure that my properly capitalized corporation qualifies as a “highly respected (and very expensive) law firm.”
February 21st, 2007 at 9:47 am
Please please spare us the BS …you cant get anything right Casey …so what makes you think you can run a business ..i will laugh my head of if you get credit ..and im willing to bet you’ll be laughed at on every application…first up Casey - who is going to finance a business that does nothing except create debt and hot air - and of course its not for a lawyer to decide if your actually eligible for credit.Really Casey get a job..your getting worse by the day …the desperation is becoming obvious
February 21st, 2007 at 9:52 am
Oh, you also have to love the part on the “great” corporate brokers’ website saying “up to $250,000 (or more)” in corporate credit…why say $250,000 then? What does the “or more” really mean? Well, I suppose Dell Computer probably has more than $250,000 in corporate credit.
What’s the over/under on CaseyCorp’s first credit line (not a dedicated credit line for just one retailer, but a bank)? $500?
Now, I’d really be impressed if he could negotiate his debts down to $500 and pay them off with the line of credit. If so, I have a job for him in debt negotiation.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:53 am
Man, I don’t even know why I bother to pay my bills, open my mail, go to work when I seems like none of this is necessary in this country. If Casey can set up some sort of corporation to borrow even more money, I give up. It’s completely ridiculous.
Frankly, I think his “investments” are real, but this blog is just one long, drawn out troll. I do agree that Casey has mental problems — and it’s the “celebrity” that he really craves.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:56 am
with its own cash in the bank has a lot of trouble getting financing…
You with your proven record of failure and your overdrawn bank account should have no problems securing fresh cash to lose for a bank.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:00 am
I am going to call the fbi, irs, and any other government entity that is responsible for protecting the public interest. I will call 20 times daily and scream until they come to take you away which will hopefully prevent you from costing the american public any more money. I will not allow you to continue I should recieve a medal for my actions.
(side note)
notice that I created a measurable and reachable goal for myself. I am making myself accountable by posting this for the group, or at least the moderators. Learned that from the guru’s.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:02 am
“This is my chance to show that I am finally learning my lessons.”
If you had really learned a lesson you would be out working hard and earning some $$ instead of planning another scheme with a high probability of failure. Your financial life is like a ship with a big hole in the bottom. You had better fix the hole and start bailing water before trying to win the America’s Cup.
Loser.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:12 am
Please god. Don’t let casey get any more loans. Please. I beg you.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:16 am
Million man march on the federal reserve to stop Casey is scheduled for this weekend. We meet on Pennsylvania avenue at noon Saturday.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:17 am
Corporate attorneys? What a joke. Any corporate attorney will tell you that a corporation cannot just borrow money without assets to use as collateral and/or without a business track record. What a joke.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:17 am
please explain why a lender would extend credit to your corp? you do plan to tell the truth this time right?
February 21st, 2007 at 10:19 am
did you explain your entire situation to those attorneys?
February 21st, 2007 at 10:32 am
If you do manage to borrow money with a corporation, you’ll still have to pay it back. You’re just borrowing Peter to pay Paul again.
And trying to hide your identity from potential lenders with a 100% owned corporation will give prosecutors more evidence of fraud to use against you. If you ever stand before a jury, you’ll want to look like a clueless kid, not a scheming corporate con-man.
Seriously, stop digging that pit before it becomes a grave.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:35 am
Did you see this article this morning? Wade Cook was just found guilty of tax fraud for loaning himself money from his company. http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....k21m0.html
February 21st, 2007 at 10:41 am
How are you going to pay for your corporate attorneys (very expensive ones at that… btw, expensive is not always equal to the best…), state filing fees and Corporate Brokers’ services? Their bottom of the line “Gold” package is $2k alone. Last I checked, you have not the net worth to afford that, much less the platinum package that includes consulting and tax prep/planning…
February 21st, 2007 at 10:42 am
Tibetan Monk say:
Casey make lot of motion, but still nothing get done.
NM short sale forgotten.
Casey should practice play investor before use real money.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:48 am
Casey-
You do realize that borrowing is not a way to get out of debt?
Just checking.
The real estate market is completely tanking, look anywhere to see it. The entire subprime segment of the real estate market will go belly up, those that got rich off irresponsibility and greed will start whining, and to head off a recession/satisfy wealthy political donors, the government (i.e. us, the US taxpayer) will bail them out. The same US taxpayer that has had to struggle with buying a house because these f$%^s inflated the prices. Luckily I still rent, so hopefully the prices come down a lot so in a few years I can buy. Still, I feel for all the innocent people that got hurt by this whole process.
Anyway, Casey, you have to get a job. Making more SWEET deals will only get you further in debt. Real Estate doesn’t necessarily go up, so if you flip in a down market, you will probably lose money. (Unless you are very skilled/lucky, which you have shown time and again that you are neither).
Yes getting a job won’t solve your problems. Doing nothing will do even less!!!! You will have to work like a slave just to stay afloat/out of jail. Get used to it. If you try for more sweet deals, you are just continuing to dig your hole deeper.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:07 am
If you do a short sale now, insolvency will allow you to defer any debt cancellation income into a future tax year (maybe even eliminate it)
But if your corporation bails you out, then guess what? You’re solvent again. You might have some capital losses, but with the carryover limit, you’ll be in your 50s before you’re done claiming all those losses.
Better make sure all your records are on archival paper.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:18 am
Do you really think a lender is going to give you money to pay your personal debts? Really, really? You’re going to put that purpose on the application and they’re going to go for it, just because you’re a corporation? A corporation with no assets?
(For that matter, given your history, do you really think a legit lender is going to give you money to speculate in real estate?)
February 21st, 2007 at 11:23 am
Hi Casey,
I’m an investor and I hear you’re in need of a loan to pay down your $2,000,000 debt. My partners and I specialize in high risk “under the table” investments and would like to offer you a unique opportunity to borrow money from us. With your credit history and track record, we are able to offer you a $500,000 loan at 50%. This is a “sweat deal” and you should act on it immediately. We’ve spoken with our lawyers and they’ve drafted the loan documents. Please contact us at 1-800-KGB-LOANS or email us at KILLERLOANS@KGBLOANS.COM.
Thanks,
THE KGB
February 21st, 2007 at 11:28 am
@31 Julie
Hahahahahahahahahaha. You think magic boy can write a business plan? He can’t open his mail. LOL.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:28 am
To: IRS is going to get you
Good post, except for one detail. Corporate distributions to a shareholder are generally taxable if the corporation has “earnings and profits” - Casey is an expert at obtaining loans he can’t afford to pay back.
But his ability to generate earnings and profits? I don’t think so……….
But of course income by theft is taxable - so maybe the IRS would have an argument there……
I’m sure after he goes down this silly path, he’ll find that no one is going to loan him or his shell corporation money - though maybe he can arrange something with the mob?
He’s chasing his tail and is totallyn clueless as to how lost he is - sort of sad, sort of comical.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:28 am
Mah God! Timely moderation! *dies*
It’s amazing what Casey can accomplish when someone else does it for him. Maybe he’s on to something with the outsourcing! Hell, he could outsource his entire life!!
What a wonderful and hideously depressing prospect that would be!
February 21st, 2007 at 11:34 am
You’ll buy into any “get rich quick” scheme, you are what the con men call a “mark.” Once again, I’d like to see your detailed plan of paying back/making good on your debt, please do not use the term “sweet deals,” be as specific as possible.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:52 am
It is not easy to stablish coorporate credit. You would have to invest some money to establish credit with a coorporation. At first they would ask you to stablish credit with one of the officers of the coorporation as personal guarantee. And I assume your credit is not that great. Once you stablish credit with your coorporation, if you decide to buy real estate with corporate credit, the creditor would likely review all coorporate docs, ammendments, minutes, financials etc. Are youkeeping uo with all that? Did your attorneys tell you that? And you can’t borrow your way out of debt. You need to find a job.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:58 am
Casey,
I think you are on the right track. No matter what, don’t get a job. Only the haters are telling you to get a job. Don’t do it.
Excellent post…….
Jeff Delagado
February 21st, 2007 at 12:01 pm
Uh, Casey,
These expensive corporate attorneys: Who recommended them, exactly?
Was it the Corporation Brokers guys who used their long list of contacts and pointed you to these atorneys, or was it via completely independent referrals, perhaps from successful businessmen you know?
This is rather important, since you do seem to take advice far too often from people whose vested interests work against yours.
Even better, did the corporation brokers put up the MONEY for you to have the discussion with these attorneys? Do you get where I’m headed with this?
February 21st, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Kid, kid, kid;
“My corporation would be used to continue doing real estate and other types of investments with the added asset protection, tax advantages and borrowing ability that I did not have as a sole proprietor.”
Are you TRYING to be offensive, little hobbit?
Do you really and honestly think that folks can’t see through exactly what you’re trying to do here?
Let me spell it out in case there are any dullards in the bunch:
Casey borrows (magical) money from Casey Incorpororated, using his valuable real estate holdings as surety against default.
Casey the Hobbit defaults, and his valuable real estate holdings are forfeited to Casey Incorpororated.
Casey Incorporated declares corporate bankruptcy, citing its’ outstanding loan balance to Casey the Hobbit, as well as its’ (rapidly depreciating) real estate , and it’s inability to get Casey the Hobbit to repay.
Casey Incorporated evaporates like a fart in a typhoon, leaving the same mortgagors holding the bag, a bunch of worthless letterhead from Casey Incorporated, and Casey the Hobbit goes to Jamba Juice.
This is all a smoke and mirrors shell game designed to allow Casey to walk away scot free from the scene of the crime.
Everyone up to speed?
It ain’t gonna work, kid.
The dodgy loan applications with your signatures on ‘em aren’t going to “go away”…and you can bet yer bippie that they’ll be dug up and dumped out in front of the court.
When that happens, ace, this corporate credit exercise is going to be revealed for the “Casey Getaway Vehicle” that it really is.
Don’t go there, kid…don’t go there.
The paper trail is too long and well-established.
But…you’re desperate, so that’s probably exactly what you are going to do.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:23 pm
i smell a shameless plug (for$$$ most likely) for this “corporate brokers inc.” Either that or he has been fleeced once again…
Look at the pricing:
http://www.corpbrokersinc.com/.....ODUCTS.ASP
February 21st, 2007 at 12:28 pm
OK 1st figure out how any future project will pay back BOTH any new loan and your old obligations. I expect you will only create a ponzi scheme with a new loan.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:35 pm
I don’t know what kind of family you were raised in, what their values were, or what they taught you. I know what they did NOT teach you: morality, ethics, responsibility and integrity. In reading your blog for the past six months, I have yet to see the faintest evidence of ethical or responsible behavior.
And as far as morality goes, spare me your piety, tithing and being a good christian bullcrap. It goes about as far as that child molestor congressman Foley’s pretend screaming and barking against, well, child molestors when he held a commission to deal with, well, child molestors. Just like Foley, you are morally bankrupt.
This country gave you and your family a real opportunity to make a new and prosperous life for yourselves. An opportunity that millions of people on the planet would die, or kill to have, and many literally do both.
This mess is what you saw fit to do with your opportunity. You saw fit not to avail yourself of the best quality higher education system available in the world. You saw fit not to become a successful, positively contributing member of society through honest means and hard work, and to be justly rewarded for it. You saw fit not to learn anything positive and valuable even though you had more than ample opportunity to do so.
You chose instead to squander this great opprtunity, to look for devious, illegal and fraudulent shortcuts to what you thought of as “success”, while laughing in the face of those who value education, honesty and work ethics.
And this disaster you find yourself in is the direct result of your choices. America may have many faults, but limitting individuals from fulfilling their potential is not one of them. And most immigrants to this country, whether successful or not, learn this in very short order. I know this from firsthand experience. I’m one of the more successful ones who chose to educate myself, to earn everything I gain, and to reach my goals through hard work and all the kinds of things you laugh at.
But you will soon stop laughing. And the deafening silence that will follow the laughter will be your signal that real pain is about to start, and persist, for many years, if not decades. You have yet to experience pain. So far you’ve skated without any real consequence to your stupidity. But this train is headed fast for the cliffside. Enjoy your ride. You’ve earned it.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Casey-
You’re no better than a Nigerian 419 scam artist.
The more you continue to not get it, the more you will fail.
February 21st, 2007 at 12:50 pm
I don’t know much about all this corporate credit stuff, but if it works that would buy more time and better interest rates probably…
It’s sounds too good to be true, but if you can pull this off Casey it would be amazing!!!
All these people want you to go to jail, I think a lot of them are just trying to scare you and other really do hope you go to jail.
Something tells me that you wont see a day in court for criminal charges…. Small chance…
It sucks you are even considered to be in that “small chance” boat, so you can’t sleep with no worries, but I think very little worries.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:10 pm
“I’m learning my lessons. Do you see me taking out any more liar loans? ”
Now you’re insulting the intelligence of this blog’s readers. You stopped taking out more loans because YOU WERE NO LONGER ABLE to take out loans. Your credit history and credit score were reduced to crap. If you had the ability to take out more loans, of any kind you would have happily continued to do so. You didn’t stop voluntarily, you were barred from taking any more loans.
Even as we speak you are trying to take out more loans, of a different kind. Call it whatever you want - loans are loans. And when you have absolutely no ability to pay them back, they become bad loans, no matter how you try to package them and what label you slap on them. Only, the kind you’re after now will most certainly put you in jail, even if the previous ones don’t.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:11 pm
This seems more like an exercise into how far you can push the financial system before they start pushing back.
If I were you (performing this experiment), I would definitely try getting more loans and as much debt as possible.
Don’t pay any attention to those naysayers who want you to get a job, honest work for honest pay…blah blah blah. Stick to your guns man…and borrow your way out of this mess. Sweet deals abound because everyone in real estate appear to be morons…you just have to be aware of this, but by all means avoid mirrors…
February 21st, 2007 at 1:18 pm
OMG we found the RE Nick Leeson.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:21 pm
Dearest Casey. Thanks for padding our pockets.
Best of luck to TeamCasey in ‘07.
Oh, for an additional $1,995 we can guarantee you another $50k in funding. Don’t bother with reading all of the disclaimers we sent you. Just sign and let’s get you reaching for the stars.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Hey chief,
Your idea of leverage sounds like borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. You still have the outstanding debt at the end of the day, only to somebody else.
Now, I admit, I’m no real estate agent or broker. I understand the basic concept of flipping a house mostly from watching the real estate and flipper shows on TLC and OLN. What strikes me as important is that the people featured on all of these shows don’t even mention or rely on something called “passive income.”
They’re all working long days pounding the pavement, promoting their properties, getting necessary repairs done and aggressively marketing their product. I don’t see anyone resting on their laurels and waiting for Sweet Deals to come their way. I also don’t see anyone dressed like they should be working in an indie records store. These people are all in business professional attire. I’m mentioning all this because I think you could learn more from 2 hours of watching these reality shows than you have from Robert Kiyosaki…
Incidentally, RK isn’t a real estate guru and doesn’t live off passive income (hint: it doesn’t exist). RK is a marketing whiz who makes his money selling books and delivering seminars. You don’t see RK sitting back and waiting for Passive Income either. It seems to me like he’s out there working long hours as well, making a living. Does that make him a wage slave?
Casey man, I think you ‘ve been scammed by a BS seminar passed off as legitimate real estate training. I don’t think the methods work, since in your case there’s significant proof against. The RE market is also in a heavy slump right now. Bad timing for sure. I really *really* think you have to cut your losses and get out of the game before you get yourself 4M$ in debt or more.
Not a hater, just a realist. The game’s over man, it really really is.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:25 pm
“I have come to appreciate the power of leverage. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again… leverage is a beautiful thing.”
How intriguing. Now, what exactly will you be “leveraging”? I’m assuming more poorely selected properties, leveraged 100% - no make that 120% leveraged after some sweet cashback. Gotta get that cashback for some SWEET jamba juice.
Yes, it’s truly beautiful. Sounds like a sweet plan! Goforit! And keep us posted on your success.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:27 pm
I call troll. This whole story has been very entertaining but now it’s spinning way out of control into fantastical buffoonery. Other than that it’s been a work of genius. Even Thackeray and Dickens couldn’t have distilled the spirit of their age any better than this troll has.
There is only one way now for this troll to continue to hold its audience’s attention. Casey must take it to the next level; the impossible must magically become possible and our dear Casey must suddenly and implausibly find some financiers who will forward his new corporation tens of millions of dollars.
I look forward to the next episode of this well written, and nicely photographed spoof.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:30 pm
Dude, you are an idiot. Once again, I must write to you although I don’t want to…but your just too incredibly naive and need help. I have started my LLC, enjoy a fantactic amount of coporate credit and did it the right way- the scam free way. I looked into the Corporation Brokers and found that they charge a ridiculous amount of money for the same thing you can get on your own. All you have to do is set up a corp. or LLC, preferably in Nevada (cheap and no state tax) This will cost you about $300.00 incl. filing fees with the Secretary of State. Then you pay D & B $299.00 for your DUNS number.(if you don’t know who D&B is, you have no business being in business) About a month after you get your DUNS number, apply for 5 or 6 trade line credit accounts with the major players…Home Depot, Lowes, OfficeMax, Staples, Dell, etc. Once you have established corp. credit with them and have paid them on time for about 6 months you will see the offers coming in for corp cash credit through banks. I am now into my 8th month after forming my LLC and have $450k in corporate credit. If that short sale, tax auction or foreclosure property comes up in my price range, I can pay for it on the spot.
Don’t continue to be an idiot. Think for yourself for once and don’t fall for every scam in the world. You already have the all the info. and knowledge you need in your head or subconcious (if you’re into Napoleon Hill). It’s time you start accessing and using it.
February 21st, 2007 at 1:52 pm
stove: don’t touch me, i’m hot.
casey (touching stove): ow! i burned myself!
stove: i told you. don’t do it again.
casey (touching stove): OW! i can’t believe it! it burned me again!
stove: uh…
casey (touching stove): CRAP! it’s still hot! what is wrong with this stove!
February 21st, 2007 at 1:52 pm
************
HEY “Stop! Slammatime”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EXCELLENT Job on the “HEY CASEY” SONG!!!
What song is it based on?????? I recognize the tune but can’t place it. Something by The Barenaked Ladies????
THANKS AND GREAT JOB!!!!!
*****************
February 21st, 2007 at 2:21 pm
Casey,
I’ll be amazed if you can borrow unsecured through your corporation without a personal guarantee from some kind of financially strong co-signer (maybe like your rich dad?). In fact, if you pull this off, I will pay YOU to teach ME how to do it. You can get non-recourse debt in a corp, but they will look closely at the value and cash flow from your collateral. However, even then they will check your personal credit (at least they have always done this with me). It does not have to be great, but 8 loans in default is not going to fly.
A lot more likely: this is a variation of the “up front fee loan scam” which is one of the oldest scams in the book.
You do not have to pay big money to set up a corp. You can do it yourself without an attorney for $50 to a couple hundred depending on the state.
I have serious doubts, but if it works out for you, more power to you.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Casey,
I cannot believe me eyes. CORPORATE CREDIT?
Hmmmm, I know of no creditor that will grant credit to
a newly formed (chartered) corporation without a PERSONAL GUARANTEE. Do you believe that it is easy to get corporate credit? If it were easy, don’t you think that many others who’d rather get something for nothing be doing just that? Now, lawyers are not in place to assist with starting a corporation for their health, they are in it for the money.
Let’s not forget the attorneys who are hired by the credit granters to write the contract/laws - made to protect their interest/capital from individuals who think “I can start a corporation; if that doesn’t work out I can always claim bankruptcy and start fresh.” Sorry Casey - your plan to “borrow from Peter to pay Paul” is flawed.
As said before, you need income, not more debt. I assumed at this point that you were in WAAY over your head, but now I feel that soon enough you will be much more in the hole than you are now. (Wow, is that even POSSIBLE?)
February 21st, 2007 at 2:30 pm
Mr. Mortgage-
Put me in the “I hope he goes to Jail” Group
February 21st, 2007 at 2:34 pm
You NEED to be thrown in jail before this gets any crazier.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:38 pm
“then you pay D & B $299.00 for your DUNS number”
Paying for a DUNS number is money thrown away. You don’t need to pay anything to get a DUNS and Paydex. D&B is just selling their “services” which aren’t needed at all.
Regardless, there’s not a bank around that will loan Casey more than a few hundred dollars whether he has a seasoned corp or not.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:42 pm
Casey:
People have told you before that corporate credit is not the answer to your problem. You don’t really want to listen to anyone except the shysters who want to part you and your money, do you?
Well, I’ll try again. Casey, if you can find a bank sleazy or lazy enough to lend CaseyCo, Inc. money, go at it. BUT: you are obviously planning to commingle your personal and corporate assets. Since your corporation is capitalized only by you (unless you have some equity investors up your sleeve who want to invest their cash into a business that has no revenue and $2.2 million in debt), it’s your legal alter-ego. That means no limited liability, Casey, nor any of the other benefits that one usually gets with a corporation.
Also, I’m not sure what tax advantages would apply to you, Casey, since you’re going to be tens of thousands of dollars in the hole to the IRS just on the basis of your short sales and foreclosures.
AND, perhaps more importantly for you, any new debts you take on (for which you will be personally liable… see above) will never be discharged in a potential future bankruptcy because you knew you were bankrupt when you took on the additional debt.
Your fairy god-haters have warned you not to get involved with this. If you don’t listen, you will deserve what happens to you.
On the other hand, you have now convinced me that the only way to get rich quick is to sucker people like you by making them pay me to tell them what they want to hear instead of good advice. So thanks!
February 21st, 2007 at 2:43 pm
Your insatiable need to get cash at any cost regardless of the future consequences is making you sound like a desperate drug addict.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:57 pm
Casey.
All you need is a really really big loan so that you can pay off the 2.2 million and cover living expenses and min payments until you die. Think about it. If you get the 2 billion in the form of a line of credit from your sweet connection that you made you could live on like 100k per year and pay your minimum payments for the rest of your life. Sweet. Oh the fruits of all your labor have paid off. You better run out and get that corporation set up so you get the 2 billion before they run out of money. Forget the Irs, FBI, Attorney General and other pesky agencies. You could buy the biggest blue ball in history.
February 21st, 2007 at 2:57 pm
OMG, you really are an idiot.
So, just turn your back on the properties and loans you have defaulted on - got to go on to new and better things, eh? A corporation, yeah that will fix everything.
I am incorporated - did’nt cost anywhere near the prices at that web-site you linked to. You really will try and find any way to keep from working…any shortcut, any scam, no matter how dubious.
Apparently no chance of you getting a real job and actually “earning” some money?
Wow, I wish I could be there when you wake up - like a cold, wet slap in the face……
You are losing anyone who barely supported you with these increasingly asinine postings.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:07 pm
I see I’m not to be allowed to voice my opinion that this is all a magnificent troll that is getting more and more implausible by the minute.
It’s on the verge of jumping the shark.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:15 pm
casey
I have two shell corps, both five years old, one in Nevada one in Delaware if you can show me how to get non-secured loans to these two entities I will pay you a salary starting tomorrow. Of course you won’t and you can’t because like all deals that sound to good to be true, and make no business sense, they are just a fantasy hidden behind some huckster or self help course.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:31 pm
Hmmm… when I incorporated my business last year, it took me 45 minutes online and $350. (This is in the Province of British Columbia, Canada, costs may vary from state to state). Why did you hire Corporation Brokers to do this for you at 15 times the cost?
And here’s how to use credit: borrow enough for what you want to do. Pay if off. Borrow more for another thing you want to do. Pay it off again. Borrow even more for another goal. Pay it off yet again. But don’t leverage credit with other credit. Not a good idea. Makes for an unstable situation.
Best of luck.
February 21st, 2007 at 3:51 pm
Casey -
Do you understand that borrowed money is not income? Do you? Do you understand the difference between money you actually have, and money you owe?
February 21st, 2007 at 4:01 pm
Question for you.
What’s so bad about working?
Are you so dumb you can’t understand you will never, EVER repay those loans you took?
You wanted to earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in months. That was your only plan. There was never any “Plan B”.
Now that you can’t pay your debts and are in danger of losing your properties… I’m still in shock.
Let’s face it. You have NO intention, means or ways to pay for your debt. That much is a given. What is the point of borrowing even more money?
Are you so thick, dense, dumb, etc, not to understand that you will NOT get out of this hole you dug? There’s NO way you’ll ever repay that money. You have no work ethics, no morals, no values, no remorse, no abilities, nothing.
I surely wish that you are a troll, or that you are made an example of by throwing you in jail for a couple of decades.
February 21st, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Casey,
Either you are delusional or told these guys a big fat lie about who you are and what assets you have (more like what you do NOT have. ..)
If they actually exists I have to give you credit for showing people how far they can go IF they believe they can.
The unfortunate part with you is that your plan is empty.
Gypsy
February 21st, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Casey,
Did the corp. attorney’s also tell you, in the beginning, when a new corp. applies for credit, in ANY form, the lenders/banks, etc, will require a personal guaruntee from YOU? (wait the brokers website says different…….yeah right!)
In other words, with your current personal situation, unless some fool decides to be a part of your new corp, and sign on the line for its first few loans etc, it ain’t gonna happen.
Anyone telling you otherwise, or actually making your new corp ‘credit worthy’, is pulling a scam…….so RUN.
Then again…….why are we wasting time giving you advice?…………….Because maybe someone else reading here, WILL listen.
At least that is the service this blog seems to provide……what NOT to do.
Good luck,
Jim
February 21st, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Let us study Casey Serin’s sure-fire road to riches:
1) Buy 8 houses with loans even a retard knows he won’t be able to repay.
2) ??????????????
3) PROFIT!!!!
February 21st, 2007 at 4:30 pm
Casey,
Incorporate.
Secure line of credit for AbleBuyer, Inc.
Take company public (just do what Google did).
Take your line of credit and open daytrading account.
Secure margin option for said account.
Short the hell out of AbleBuyer, Inc.
Sit back and do what you do best.
Cover shorts, voila you’re rich!
February 21st, 2007 at 4:48 pm
Ho Ho Ho - It’s Santa Flipper Clause
Casey
For Christmas, I was going to bring you a cake with a file baked into it. On second thought, I will bring you a juicy line of credit. I don’t think you will get it anywhere else. Can you hold out until December 25th?
Santa F. Cause
February 21st, 2007 at 4:54 pm
@ 108 Robber K
The chords are mostly the same as Misty by Errol Garner. The melody isn’t based on anything really, just supposed to be TV-themey.
@ Casey
Is there any way you can make the anti-spam words more Caserrific? Like win-win, jamba, looser, sweet, etc. That would really add value to the blog.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:03 pm
To answer the question from your previous post:
THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD GO TO PRISON
February 21st, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Casey,
Anything that allows you to pay off your current debts is a Sweet Deal ™. Get cracking!
Regards,
CashCall Loan Servicing Department
This is an attempt to collect a debt and any information obtained will be used for that purpose.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:16 pm
“Your insatiable need to get cash at any cost regardless of the future consequences is making you sound like a desperate drug addict.”
Any cost that doesn’t include real work.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Hey Casey,
What’s the long term plan?
I mean, say you get the corporation and $50k of unsecured debt.
You’re still deep in the hole.
What’s the plan for income?
Real estate - you clearly have no interest in properly appraising real estate to buy it below the market value, you don’t have any interest in working on houses in less than perfect condition to be able to sell renovated homes, and you don’t have the ability to read contracts, much less negotiate favorable deals for yourself. Exactly how do you plan to make money here? With your dream and some worthless self-help courses? List your actual real estate skills, I dare you.
Computing - You’ve got some decent website skills, I grant you, and that pays about $30-50k a year to start without a degree. You don’t have much marketing skill, or you’d have turned this blog into a cash cow well before now. You have no interest in a full time job, so, let’s say an average of $2k a month for contracting.
What am I missing?
Hope you’re buying lotto tickets.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:47 pm
What did you have to do to get your Google Advertising back??
February 21st, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Bwaahahahahaaha!
“They said as long as I am not lying on any applications and the personal loan from the corporation to me is legitimate (promissory note, payments, reasonable interest rate, etc) then there is nothing wrong with borrowing money from the corporation.”
You see that there which you wrote? Shell corp or not there isn’t a single bank on planet earth that would extend the amount of money you’re looking for without some sort of guarantee. An aged corporation with no credit history is not enough… you need a PERSONAL guarantee or hard collateral. Since you have no assets to speak of and are hundreds/thousands in the hole (and you’d have to be honest about or you’d be committing even more fraud) the moment they hear that they’ll escort you to the door.
The only way your idiotic plan works is if you can find a well financed partner to underwrite you. Since I doubt anyone would touch you with a 90 foot pole (what with the pending criminal investigations and whatnot) that’s what we call a “fat chance” in the business world.
Dude you are seriously being trolled or are trolling us for kicks. I can’t imagine why any reputable law firm would invite you over and advise you with a straight face other than they could say they had the legendary Casey Serin in their office and got many chuckles at your expense. Hell I wouldn’t be surprised if a secret video of your “consultation” winds up on you tube for laughs.
And to think if you had only gone to college, spent the same money you threw away on your moron gurus you’d actually have half a chance and a clue! As it stands you’re just another rube being fleeced in the good ol’ US of A. Enjoy your bed.
February 21st, 2007 at 5:52 pm
Casey,
I clicked on one of your ads 100x. I hope this brings u some bux. Sweet!
February 21st, 2007 at 5:56 pm
Your delusions are particularly strong today. Did you forget to take your medication?
February 21st, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Leverage is what got you to where you are now.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:13 pm
Hey Casey,
Sweet. You well on the road to success.
You need to borrow, say a 2.5 million, then use 2 million as a down payment on a 10M apartment building. There’ll be enough cash flow to pay a property manager to do all the work, and you just sit back and watch the cash roll in. You’ll have your debt paid off in no time - probably less than a year.
You’ll be rich soon enough Casey,
Loads O Money
February 21st, 2007 at 6:14 pm
Casey, it’s Hail Mary time. You are down big and you need to score fast. Do whatever you can, by hook or by crook (oops already did that) to borrow whatever you can get your greedy little hands on and short all the lenders who were out of their freaking minds and loaned you money. People are making big bucks betting on sub prime lender failures. This is the new sure bet. Won’t last long as we are averaging about a sub prime failure every 3 days right now.
If you are having a difficult time grasping this concept, keep it really simple. They lent YOU money. They’re freaking doomed.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:16 pm
Oh, and kid;
Y’know, I’ve been pretty critical of these clowns who drag your family into this sordid little saga of lazy ambition and spectacular failure, but I should warn you that if you are planning on having any of them be shareholders and officers of “Casey Worldwide”, then you are going to be putting THEIR necks on the chopping block right along with you.
I think the DA calls that “accessory to…”
Like I said, kid, don’t go there.
There’s only ONE thing that’s gonna get you out of this mess, little hobbit:
“Show me the money!…YOUR money”
(not what you borrowed from some schmuck, because no-one is gonna lend you a thin dime).
February 21st, 2007 at 6:28 pm
If this was an actual possiblity wouldn’t everyone with bad credit just incorporate?
Even if there were some entity willing to give you a loan without running your credit wouldn’t they ask for a info about the business. I doubt that “Pursuing semi-vegan, sweet deals in order to to promote the leveraging of win-win deals incorporating a strategy of multiple foreclosures/short sales across several states” would be a satisfactory business plan (here, maybe, but not at the bank).
For your sake, I hope you are making at least some of this up. Otherwise, the only thing that will save you from prison will be a defense that utilizes your sub-70 IQ (and FICO score).
February 21st, 2007 at 6:39 pm
Casey do you mean to tell us that you were inv esting the whole time with out some type of corporation or LLC???? You need to sue whoever your realestate mentors are. That is just ridiculous. For as much money as you spent you could have gotten way better mentoring. If you need good mentoring, I know where to refer you. It seems that for all the money you have spent, you really no very little about realestate. Not trying to be negative, but that is just bizarre. I know that you could never know everything about realestate, but you really seem to know very little. I thought you were knowledgable, but as I read I am baffled. Age is really not an excuse because I am your age and have picked up alot of properties using the seller’s financing, and have sold some, owner financed some, and rent some. I really am dumbfounded by your mentors. That is just ridiculous. God bless you man, you have a tall mountain to climb. You are right when you say you are blogging to tell people what not to do because you drfinitely don’t know what you are doing still to this day.
February 21st, 2007 at 6:48 pm
Would somebody PLEASE get this kid a reality TV show!
February 21st, 2007 at 7:01 pm
Casey, you are never going to pay back anything. Am I right?
February 21st, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Casey: you are still in the midst of a long rationalization. You pay for attorneys to co-sign your bullsh*t. Please get help — you are a debt addict. You have no idea how tiresome it is to hear your delusions of grandure repeated…I feel sorry for your family. They must pity you.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:15 pm
No sane lender will lend even $5 to a small corp without a personal guaranty, which, from you, is worthless.
You may have a good lawyer, but I doubt you are disclosing everything to them. More money and time down the crapper.
February 21st, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Hey Casey, the more I think about this, the more I think you’ll be able to pull this off. I’ve got no doubt that you can purchase some corp with some history of income, etc.. Your next step would then be finding some other corps, with similar owners. If you’re able to get your corp, then there are other individuals of the same ilk. After finding these other corps, all of you participate in buying the same thing from each other. This will show that you’ve got some income. So you should be able to start securing some loans. After enough time, you’re hoping to get a sweet loan. And holy Jamba juice, you’ve got your 100+ apartment complex. Take that passive income from the apartments and pay off your debt.
I’m loving it!
February 21st, 2007 at 7:26 pm
“By the way, I now have some technical and moderation help around here, so please be patient as they are still learning the ropes here…”
Admit it, Casey, you’re making a killing now on your blog … admit it … admit it … admit it
February 21st, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Common Sense said:
most residential lenders will not allow the corporation to finance the properties, and you have to go with specialized lenders
Actually, no residential lender will loan to a business or corporation. A corporation or trust can hold title to property, but lenders only lend to individuals.
Commercial lenders will loan on commercial property (i.e. above 4 units residential and all sorts of other commercial property), but they don’t do 100% financing. Oh and they look at things like track records and cash flow, rent rolls…things that indicate they’ll get paid back. (Not hating Casey, just trying to educate.)
Casey, thanks for the link in “recommended sites.” The haters probably consider that a warning though…
February 21st, 2007 at 7:27 pm
Heywood:
“Would somebody PLEASE get this kid a reality TV show! ”
Hmmm…
“Survivor Sacramento”?
“What’s My Crime”?
“Steal or No Steal”?
“Sweet and Consequences”?
“Fib Factor”?
“The Cheapest Link”?
then there’s always:
“Cops..Mortgage Fraud Squad”
(Jamba-Juice-Jamba-Juice, whatchagonnadooo?
How long d’ya think before they come for you?
Jamba-Juice Jamba-Juice, Ain’t that Sweet?
First night in prison and you’re fresh young meat!
Nobody now give you no loan
Nobody gonna sell you a home
Nobody wants you but the CashCall
Nobody cares about your butt at all
Jamba-Juice Jamba-Juice…)
February 21st, 2007 at 7:33 pm
#145 Heywood: This kid just needs some REALITY. Period.
He’s on crack as usual. Too lazy to work. Too busy wasting his time trying to scam people. If he doesn’t want to be Bubba’s bizatch in prison, he should stop thinking about trying to rip off more banks using corporate “loans.”
February 21st, 2007 at 7:35 pm
The truth is when your in doubt you power out.
Casey, there is no difference going Bankrupt with 2.2 Million Dollars of debt or with 22 Million Dollars of debt. Borrowing more gives you a chance to get out of the hole you’re in. Not doing so almost guarantees game over. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn’t want to see you get yourself out of this jam.
If you are going out you might as well go out with a bang.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:15 pm
This is starting to hurt my buzz..I’m out
February 21st, 2007 at 8:31 pm
More confused than ever. So Case, you borrow money to pay off the debt, then your in the hole for the loan plus any interest? What are the terms of this agreement? Smells fishy to me. It almost sounds like a stall tactic. You’ll get out of the current situation only to deal with the new one. Just doesnt sound right.
Special Note: jeptjranimroe
February 21st, 2007 at 8:37 pm
Wow. Your actually going to do this.
Your lenders will pierce the veil Casey. You better factor that in as a given. Even if you practiced dual corporate strategy on both ends with 2/10 year shelf corps using another “private” holder inc-ing in Nevada etc (About $50-100k for that kind of package I think) your lenders agents will find it.
In your case the the judge will sign off the papers very fast. I cannot think of a better way to piece your veil than owing lenders 2.2 million + 125k in credit card debt through a dis-honestly obtained loans.
Think about what you are implying to your readers. You want to leverage even more capital to bet on Real Estate in a falling market in a “smarter” way than before using the your “guaranteed” gains to pay back on both ends.
Assuming the debt figures you’ve presented are correct - it just doesn’t make any sense. Look at your new credit constraints. Now - with the bigger down payment (assuming the foreclosures have not hit your record yet) You need an average return of at least 20% on several properties at once on ALL THE PROPERTIES.
The laws of statistics are against you.
You are a little NICK LEESON. Honestly Casey you have GOT to read his book “Rouge Trader”. If you cannot get it I will buy it for you. You have GOT to read it. You are on your way to becoming a little “NICK LEESON” with this Casey.
Double or nothing does not work. I’ve done this all the time. I just lost $435.00 TODAY betting against the Aussie Dollar to recoup my losses from yesterday to break even now I’m down $870.00 in two days.
As a matter of fact - you would be better off getting your 50k in credit and funneling it into a 200/1 margin / 10 million dollar bet in the Foreign Exchange market during a major economic announcement. 2 cents would earn you $200,000k. You have a 50/50 chance and it would take about 45 seconds.
And that would STILL not be enough to cover your debt.
What you are doing is insane. In the words of Tennis legend John McEnroe “You cannot be serious!”.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:37 pm
The problem with the corporate loan was that nobody will lend money to a shell corporation with no business, whose owner is a deadbeat with a FICO score lower than the cash in my wallet.
Why is this reality so hard to fathom?
CorpBrokersInc is selling you a bill of goods. The sooner you stop talking to them and focusing on solving your problems, the better off you’ll be.
February 21st, 2007 at 8:49 pm
Casey,
According to their site, it costs almost $8,000 for their services.
You’re not really going to pay that, are you?
With what money? Have you lost all sense of the value of money?
February 21st, 2007 at 8:53 pm
Stop learning as you go. Take a few years, get an education, go to Business School (MBA) and learn the details of Corporate Finance, Real Estate, and Law. You’ve let “sales guys” like Robert Kiosaki and other Con Artists penetrate your mind (and another area on your body) and now you’re getting ready to make another big mistake by creating a corporation? Get an education so you that you have the foundation to think for yourself.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:00 pm
Desperately grabbing anything are we. I love this plan, I really do, go for it kid it’ll make for a great show when your plans finally go up in flames. This will be a great lesson for me as well, I mean my partners and I really went though the hoops to get adequate credit for a legit business with a professional plan and lawyers everywhere, and here you, with no plan, no job and no credit, will do the same.
Damn, I have to save all of this for a future warning to my friends and family of the dangers of being a lazy, uneducated get-rich-quickie.
Again, no advice for you from me. You listen only to those who tell you what you want to hear, you have already made up you mind that you will persue this ill concieved plan.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:17 pm
just to let u know. even though u will have a coporation so they cant get ur assests. to borrow money, they make u sign a guarantee to borrow the money and u have to sign saying you give them permission to take ur assests if u cant pay them back. so ur asstes arnt really any more safe.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:23 pm
haha read number 126. haha
February 21st, 2007 at 9:24 pm
Casey,
You are 8 years too late You could have founded Pets.com and at least got a sweet sock puppet to auction on ebay for big bucks!
For an upcoming post can we get some pics and bio information on ‘Team Casey’ that is helping with the moderation, Jamba Juice runs (no pun intended with that high fiber juice), etc.
-Big Cheese
February 21st, 2007 at 9:29 pm
1 reason casey got in debt and forcloser when he got loans.
he cant manage money and properties.
and
he didnt have a plan B to have his own money, to hold on to the houses if they dont sell in the first year.
and i cant belive you bought 8 houses by urslef as a sole pro.
you should have had each house in a different LLC. or have a business and have a s corporation. and put all the houses in a title name instead of ur own name. now ur DEFINATLY” getting sued and going to jail. everything was done in ur name. thats sad.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:33 pm
trife thieves…casey cant be trusted. hes gonna be a mark in prison. we all know theres….NO SUCH THINGS AS HALF WAY CROOKS. hes a stick up kid. marrrkk
casey u just be ganking.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:40 pm
Hey Casey,
Just noticed DLG’s banner is gone.
Maybe you could get one of those credit repair companies to become the new sponsor? (Would seem a perfect fit for your blog) If not for cash compensation, maybe for an ‘exchange of services’?
Don’t know if this’d create a taxable event; run it by your CPA first.
Still hatin’ (but trying to offer constructive advice; don’t wanna be just another jealous hater),
T.White.
Special note: I heard that such companies are more worthless than RE gurus… so be careful.
Another special note: Or… when you incorporate, your new shell/ponzi ‘company’ could sponsor your blog (would it own your blog?). Sponsoring your own blog = advertising write off = WIN + WIN
February 21st, 2007 at 9:41 pm
right now ur getting prosecuted by the state level. if u do coporate fraud, u will get prosecuted with a “federal” felony. but i guess you want to be like Enron company. exept you wont be lucky enough to die from a heart attack like the ceo did before going to prison.
February 21st, 2007 at 9:46 pm
caseys future…..
Enron is in the midst of liquidating its remaining operations and distributing its assets to its creditors.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:02 pm
If Lacey Serin Gas listed all the people, seminars and
classes he paid for real estate ‘education’;
They may pay him to never mention their names again.
February 21st, 2007 at 10:31 pm
everything in moderation asks: “If this was an actual possiblity wouldn’t everyone with bad credit just incorporate?”
They would if they were smark like Casey.
Some people with bad credit are stupid and don’t even have a BLOG.
I think Casey should name the corp. “Blue Ball Corp.” When he goes public it can be BBC…
February 21st, 2007 at 11:22 pm
You simply bit of more than you can chew.
Your best bet is to set up a payment plan with every debt collection and financial institution you owe from the past, and actually start working to save up some hard earned money, something I sure your foreign to.
February 21st, 2007 at 11:42 pm
Casey,
PUT THAT JAMBA JUICE DOWN and SIGN ON THE LINE THAT IS DOTTED.
That’s how it’s done in the big leagues.
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:03 am
i can offer minor financial backing for a casey serin reality t.v. show. if others are interested please contact me serin.show.jrd@xoxy.net. thanx
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:49 am
Casey, to me the issue has never been that you CAN’T borrow money from your corp ( I have done it myself. Well, I have done both- took loans from the corp and made loans to it) legally lend money to yourself from the corp.
The issue is that to get most high corporate LOC, it requires personal guarantees with 680ish scores. Even then it would be hard to get multiple six figures. I have an estalished corp with legit high 6 figure sales and mot of my top biz credit cards and lines are in the $20,000-30,000 range. Only ONE of these lines did not pull my personal credit and that is a high ( 16%ish) store branded MasterCard.
I think your only Hope is this endeavor is if you can secure a partner willing to be an officer and stockholder who will Personally Guarantee credit accounts for the Corp. However, this would require someone who has great credit AND is either trusting or gullible/stupid enough to go into busness with you when your sole “business” function seems to be making loans to yourself. The chances of you have someone in your life who is THAT “good” a friend is probably slim- and such a person would likely endup being “screwed” by you. What happens if someone partners with you( because you sure as hell arent getting SUFFICIENT corporate credit on your own) and gets $100,000 in corporate credit ( minimum payment likely $2000+ per month) to bail you out and then you can’t make the payments? And you will be skipping around drinking Jamba Juice.. ” oh sorry, dude. I thought we were getting some Sweet Deals soon, You think you can cover this $2,000 out of your own pocket?”…
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:47 am
Everyone worrying about how Casey’s corporation will get a loan, how it will be repaid, or about other such problems: you’re probably working schmucks who think inside the box. Think outside the box. Do you think Casey would have gotten his original loans had he been honest? Once fraud is one of your tools, new and beautiful vistas open up (sweet deals, indeed). Maybe Casey will become more skilled at leveraging this time. Stated income fraud is for beginners. There’s also identify theft and many other kinds of fraud. Think outside the box.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:04 am
What’s up, Mr. Moderator? Am I on some sort of “permanent delete” list now? Why moderate my last post? No cursing, no name-calling…are any direct references to Casey’s crimes, lack of a triple-digit IQ or utter unwillingness to pursue an honest dollar off-limits now?
I wish this site were just a troll. However, it’s the PR arm of an ongoing criminal enterprise, run by a mentally-ill, addicted sociopath.
Somebody please stop this guy!
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:36 am
Casey - I hope you are successful in issuing stock for your corporation. I’ll be first in line buying ‘puts.’
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:03 am
The other approach Casey can try now that he’s set up a corporation is to transfer ownership of the properties to Casey’s Flight Of Fancy INC (or LLC or whatever the heck kind of ‘corporate’ entity he’s conjured up and been overcharged for) and walk away
You know like outsourcing your debt or something you might call the ‘Enron approach’…oh wait…that didn’t work either.
Give up Casey…you are screwed and whatever you do or blog about won’t work.
If you don’t get jail time, for sure the lenders are going to sue you in civil actions, win thanks to the copious evidence you’ve put up here and you’ll still be in debt to them plus court costs attorney fees etc. *Any* money you ever make will be going to them.
To the people here with real jobs (even jobs in cubicles), who play by the rules I salute you.
To Casey, maybe you should ask to share Jeff Skilling’s cell…you might finally learn something.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:24 am
I see the last sponsor is now gone…any other income coming in?
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:49 am
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.
Therein lies your defense.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:07 am
And you ask why you should go to jail? Becasuse you haven’t learned a thing and even if this is legal, you show zero remorse or growth from your current “investment” strategy.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:17 am
i see…so, you do delete comments. my two comments were deleted. they should’ve been number 128 and 131. why do you pick and chose comments?
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:37 am
Hey guys, you’re reading way too much into the situation… calm down a bit, ok?
My goal is to use the corporation to run a profitable business, I have other shareholders (who are putting up a personal guarantee) and I have to make sure they are getting taken care of.
I may or may not actually borrow from the corporation to refi personal debt and it will only be if I know for sure that I can service that debt.
I have no intent to pass the debt through to the corporation and BK on the corp side. That would be wrong and will only add to my troubles.
With the corporation I want it to treat it like a separate entity that it is. My attorneys told me to imagine the corporation as another independent person with their own self-interests. The corporation is not just an extension of me.
That’s how I intended to treat it.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:55 am
Casey, can you please tell us how you intend to settle/pay off all of your debt this year. Please do not include “sweet deals” in your answer, be as specific as possible. TIA
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:02 am
Casey, you’ve become a star!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casey_Serin
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:03 am
Casey,
You are now saying that you have no intention of using the Coroporation as a means by which you can escape your current debt.
Back in December, you had the same “idea” - about a corporation. You are posting the building of a corporation on your website named I am facing forclosure, yet you say you have no “intention” of using the corporation for Fraud.
Since you have admitted to Fraud, what 8 times?, what will keep you from a few more using this “corporation” should it work out?
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 am
@ #96 : Hopefully out shepherd-hatted friend signed up with his own promo code. (CASEY)
$345 off the Gold Package.
$1,005 off the Platinum Package!
$1,495 off the Triple Platinum Package!!
Sweet.
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 am
you intended a lot more in the past.
but that didn’t really pan out now, did it?
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:17 am
Wow, whoever those ’shareholders’ are, they need more help than even you. Well, I suppose this will assist with your goal of flat-out ignoring your current problems and moving on to bigger and better problems. What are you going to be providing to the corporation, exactly? Certainly not financial backing. Are you going to be the ‘idea man?’ What happens if you go to jail mid-way through a sweet deal? If there’s people on the corp that are more skilled than you, why the heck are they taking you on? If you’re the most skilled member of the bunch, God help you all.
Though I may be harsh, I must confess, I’ve shared a certain empathy for you since I started reading in October. I was in a similar situation to you, although nowhere near as catastrophic.
Living in Michigan with no work in a terrible job market, with student loans coming due. No income, grace periods ending… But you see, today I was offered a job! The loans, the rent, all are now completely payable! Everything will be neatly paid on time, no late fees, overdrafts, or anything! I’ll even get to have a savings! That way, if I want to look for other opportunities, go on a trip to Hawaii, or start my own business, I’ll have, in your parlance, “leverage.” And food on the table! Fancy that!
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:22 am
Cash-Making Idea!!!
Auction off the chance to name CaseyCorp! You have to name it something, why not let the choice be made by the highest bidder? You could make a few stipulations like no curse words, nothing blatantly unprofessional (YourMom’sButt Corp), but I’m sure someone would still give you cash for the privilege, and cash is what you need!
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:25 am
Casey,
This isn’t for you as you compare what you did to speeding and burning CDs. This is for the clueless who think what you did was fine.
From Bankrate.com
“We have (mortgage originators) who look at an application and tell (borrowers), ‘If you could show us these three things, we might be able to get you into this other program,’” Rivera says. “When you tell someone, ‘This is federal mortgage fraud,’ they just sit back and look at you. There’s a whole undercurrent where people aren’t thinking it’s that big of a deal. It’s a violation of federal banking regulation. You can be indicted and go to jail.”
The link:
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/ne.....aud-a1.asp
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:26 am
Not a bad idea… I’m not sure about doing an auction, but I’ll take suggestions for names…
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:55 am
YOU HAVE BACKERS?!?
Sweet! I can only surmise that like Steven Jobs you posses a reality distortion field capable of making people abandon their better sense of judgment. Rasputin had one too. I guess it’s a Rusky/Caucus mountain thing.
The only logical possibilities:
1. You paid $8000 to your corp brokers for the full monty and they are milking you hysterical with empty promises of future success.
2. You are now mining the identity theft nugget, using Uzbek cohorts to give up their SS# in exchange for a cut of the profits.
3. You actually found some twisted patrons who are letting you “in” on the action so they can use you name in a largely ceremonial fashion.
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:58 am
Congrats, Aelfscine, on getting a job! That Scion tC will be yours!
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:02 am
you first need to legally obtain those names before you can sell them, dummy. can’t sell what isn’t yours dude. oh wait, that’s not in your dictionary.
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:06 am
I am curious: why is it that whenever el-guapo (Casey) receives advice, whether it be from his “high priced lawyers” or Nigel’s accountant/interrogator/sniper friend, those individuals are ALWAY annonymous? Why?
If their advice is sound (and legal) and they are willing to provide it, why the desire for annonymity?
Things that make you go hmmmmmm.
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:09 am
Did you pay these lawyers or are the working pro-bono in order to be corporate counsel for Caseycorp? How will this corporation make money to pay back your debts?
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:10 am
Hi Casey. It’s not clear from reading your blog over the last few months that you have any business school education. If you did, you would know that even short-term creditors are looking for key characteristics in the financial condition of your company. Below is an excerpt from one of my MBA classes in accounting and finance. Can you please comment on the financial analysis of your company as you intend to explain things to potential creditors? Thanks in advance. And your blog is highly entertaining. Good luck.
Ratio Analysis—Short-term Creditor
A short-term creditor is concerned with the ability of the company to make payments on its debts. Thus, the short-term creditor is much more interested in cash flows and in working capital management than in how much accounting net income a company reports.
1. Working Capital. The excess of current assets over current liabilities is known as working capital. A large working capital balance provides some security to short-term creditors.
Working capital = Current assets – Current liabilities
2. Current Ratio. The current ratio is another way to express the relation between current assets and current liabilities. It is computed as follows:
Current ratio = Current assets / Current liabilities
A current ratio of less than 1 may be considered unacceptable since in that case current liabilities would exceed current assets—a warning that there may soon be a cash flow problem.
3. Acid-Test Ratio. The acid-test ratio is a more rigorous test of a company’s ability to meet its short-term debts than the current ratio since it excludes less liquid current assets such as inventories and prepaid expenses. The acid-test ratio is computed as follows:
Acid-Test ratio = (cash + shortterm investments + current receivables) / Current liabilities
Note that “current receivables” includes any notes receivable as well as accounts receivable.
4. Accounts Receivable Turnover. Accounts receivable turnover is a measure of how quickly accounts receivables are turned into cash. In its most intuitive form, the turnover figure is typically divided into 365 days and shown as the average number of days to collect an account (known as the average collection period). This ratio is used to evaluate credit management and account collection practices.
Receivables turnover ratio = Net credit sales / Average net receivables
An increase in the accounts receivable turnover (and a decrease in the average collection period) would usually be considered favorable.
5. Inventory Turnover. The inventory turnover ratio measures how quickly inventory is converted into sales. In its most intuitive form, the average number of days required to sell inventory (the average sale period) is computed by dividing 365 days by the inventory turnover figure. This ratio is used to evaluate inventory management.
Inventory turnover ratio = Cost of goods sold / Average inventory balance
Average sale period = 365 days / Inventory turnover ratio
An increase in the inventory turnover (and a decrease in the average sale period) would usually be considered favorable.
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:16 am
“My goal is to use the corporation to run a profitable business, I have other shareholders (who are putting up a personal guarantee) and I have to make sure they are getting taken care of…..”
Shareholders? Oy…. either they are completely stupid or they are part of Scam II.
I can’t believe anyone would be in business with a sinking ship like yours unless the “shareholders” have more expierence in ripping off people/federal instituions than you.
February 22nd, 2007 at 11:41 am
Hey Casey!
You might be interested in reviewing the following article. Trust me, PT Barnum was right!!
http://www.nysun.com/article/48727
Best Regards,
L
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:30 pm
Why am I now getting bombed with e-mail spam and spam robots at my blog?
Could it be our young genius is selling our information?
Talk about generating cash flow.
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Casey,
You are the Britney Spears of Real Estate Investing.
Get some help or get a job.
PS
I’m not a hater, I actually admire your desire to succed, but you are going at it the wrong way. You have to take responsiblity.
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
My security word is “sweet”.
I kid you not.
At any rate, here is the real reason why Casey wants to do the corporate credit thing with this latest scam company:
http://www.corpbrokersinc.com/.....ODUCTS.ASP
“Corporate Credit Coach (good for 12 months) – A Corporate Agent will be your mentor/ coach who will walk you through the process for one full year (12 Mos). They will guide, assist and walk you through the whole process from A-Z. The Corporate Agent will make sure that you are on track with the program. You will not only learn the program, but the Corporate Agent will pretty much do the work for you.”
Evil Hobbit lovvvvvvvvvvves gurus and mentors.
It’s going to be funny as hell when he ends up in jail.
February 22nd, 2007 at 6:22 pm
CLOTPOLL
“Why am I now getting bombed with e-mail spam and spam robots at my blog?Could it be our young genius is selling our information?Talk about generating cash flow.”
——————————-
I am having the same thing happen to me. Ever since I started visiting this blog. Casey claims he is not selling email address but I think he is lying.
I have never used my business email on any other website before. It’s a very uncommon and hard to remember email. It cannot be just a coincidence.
I am getting bombed with spam and robot email. I have an extremely legalized time sensitive business - with a high risk of professional accountability. I have accidentally deleted 2 of my clients emails already. The “I didnt get your email” excuse; isnt going to cut it.
This sucks. Now I will probably have to get an ICE-BOX spam blocker and have to go through all the bullshit of setting it up, approving, deleting etc. Paying the monthly fees - perhaps even loosing potentail new business because it gets marked as spam! Thanks allot Casey. I try to be nice and help you out and this is what I get?
My email was pure before.
This is really makes me mad. Casey knew it was my business email becuase I sent personal letters to him. Look - I just got 2 more float in as I’m typing this letter. Karma is a b**** Casey!
Grrr.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:56 pm
Leverage is a beautiful thing? Sure. Unless your trade goes DOWN. Then you get a margin call and your positions are LIQUIDATED.
You need training.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:27 pm
I realize that it may be impossible for you to fully grasp the basic problem with borrowing additional money to “pay off” your existing debts.
Leaving that aside, these “corporation broker” people are absolutely, positively, full of sh*t.
You have got to learn to spot scams before handing over your credit card.
The corporation brokers you’re talking about show many signs of being a website full of broken promises. For example -
1. They offer a “triple platinum” package. People with real products that provide real value don’t have to tart their wares up with hokey BS like this.
2. Their business address is one of those private mailboxes-by-the-month places. Those guys charge 5-10x what the Post Office does for a comparable PO Box. Why do people use them? Because they don’t want to have to talk to anyone who’s in the same building as a Postal Inspector.
3. They won’t tell you their names or give you specifics about their resumes and their business experience. If these guys are such big experts, why won’t they put their names and their resumes on their website?
4. Actually, I haven’t seen this before, but it’s so f*cking ridiculous that I can’t believe (a) that they’d do it, or (b) that everyone doesn’t immediately run away screaming … the “financing” they offer to pay for their ridiculous service is CashCall.
5. They say that they’ll report a $2500 line of credit to D&B and Experian when you form a corporation .. but they’re not offering you credit. (They want you to go pay 59% at CashCall.) This is a lie. You remember what happens when people tell lies about credit, right? Also, if they will lie to D&B (and brag about it on their website) in exchange for money from you .. do you suppose it is possible they would also lie to you, if it meant that they got to have some money?
6. They say that you’ll qualify for “$50K guaranteed cash credit”. This is impossible. I mean it. Impossible. This is the financial equivalent of a perpetual motion machine. Someone who promises you this is an idiot or a criminal. Do not do any business with them, under any circumstances, ever.
Think about it. If you could give someone $5000 and get $50K worth of credit .. you could then take that $50K and get 10 more $50K lines of credit; and take that $500K and get $5M worth of credit; and take that $5M worth of credit and get $50M worth of credit .. and so on. Pretty soon you can take over the universe.
That’s exactly the sort of magical thinking that got you where you are now.
Credit is not free money. Credit is money lent with an expectation that it will be repaid. Nobody is going to lend $50K without a plausible explanation for how and when it will be repaid, with interest. (This is the difference between families and banks.)
A newly formed corporation might - or might not - have a reasonable plan for repaying $50K in debt. According to the corporate brokers’ website, I could pay them $4500 to form a corporation whose business plan consisted of paying me $50/hr to sit on the couch and play Playstation and hope (er, “think positive”) that a meteorite filled with magical diamonds from Mars will land on my lawn, which I will then sell to repay the loan. According to the website, that corporation qualifies for a $50K loan. Do you see a problem with that?
The only plausible answer is that somebody’s lying. Either the corporate brokers are lying when they say the $50K is guaranteed, or the loan is possible because someone’s going to lie on the credit application to get the $50K loan.
Does any of that sound familiar to you?
The outcome of this is likely to be one of two things - either the brokers tell you “Sorry, I guess the $50K you counted on didn’t work out, but we’ve already got our $4500, too bad for you”; or you commit some more loan fraud. My bet is on the former scenario, but the second is possible, too.
Of course, it might be that there are real lenders in the mix, who really will loan money to anyone, based on the strength of your cosignors’ credit. If that’s the case, you don’t need any of this expensive corporate crap - just get the cosignors to get a credit card in their own name, and add you as an authorized user. Voila. You’ve got credit, and someone else is on the hook to pay it back, which is exacly the scenario you described, except that nobody extracted thousands of dollars from you and your cosignors to set the thing up.
There are legitimate companies that form corporations - try LegalZoom, or Bizfilings.com, for example. You shouldn’t pay more than $400 or so for a California corporation, assuming you want to go the do-it-yourself “we don’t need no stinking attorneys” route.
Your current plan looks exactly like your previous (failed) plan, except that this time you’re seeking “corporate debt” instead of mortgages, and you’re going to pay thousands of dollars to useless gurus who will sell you garbage about “asset protection” and “corporations” instead of “making millions in real estate.”
At the end of 2007, will you have formed 8 corporations in 8 months, each of which will have $50K in debt guaranteed by some gullible family member?
If you hurry, you might even be able to get all 8 of them formed in the same month, so the lenders won’t see the multiple hits on the credit report of your cosignor .. but I guess you know about that trick already.
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Grifter LLC
Buy n Die llc
ready Fire Aim LLC
Lie Buy Cry LLC
Buy and Burn LLC
Serin Gasp LLC
Cash and Dash LLC
Feed Me LLC
Catfood recipes LLC
Dice and doe LLC
Trust Me LLC
Burp
March 19th, 2007 at 12:43 am
Timeline of Life, Houses and Foreclosure CashCall is Calling my Friends Get Foreclosure Help by Drinking Fresh Juice My First Trustee Sale / Foreclosure Auction Results Foreclosure Auction On Monday I am Facing Foreclosure Fan Mail Attorneys Say Corporate Credit is OK, Need a Plan Why Should I Go To Jail For Mortgage Fraud? Casey Serin Satire - Pictures and Song New Mexico Foreclosure Rescheduled, More Time For Short Sale Good Things Are Coming… View All Entries »
March 24th, 2007 at 8:47 pm
Hey Casey~
Write a book or extend your blog on this subject in terms of what your attorney advice was a bit more in-depth. I applaud what you’ve done. You know the Donald knows all about this!
And for those who don’t know- Casey being able to borrow money in Corporate arenas is the American way and the number one rule in Finance. Even behemoth corporations like Wal-mart do not use their own money and still receives a government subsidy in one form or another.
Casey, I guess you should check into grants. The U.S. government has a specific website with dot gov as it’s domain classification. Just another alternative or combo solution to your dreams since a lot of those are ignorant to the cliche in business ‘use other people’s money!! And less of yours as oft as possible.” Google it, do what you have to do, call Wharton, etc., etc., but that’s the way it’s done!
I’d like to trade notes, you have my e-mail.
April 10th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Casey, ever thought about commercial real estate investing once you get everything fully sorted out?
Commercial real estate in Miami is going strong.