The lenders keep calling me. I don’t answer. They make it easy to avoid them by not showing their Caller ID. So I don’t even pick up if Caller ID is “Unavailable”.
Sometimes they do have Caller ID showing but its an 800 number. I hit the ignore button on my PDA phone as soon as I see that too.
Sometimes they leave a message sometimes they don’t. Many times the message is a recording. Probably an automated system making these outbound calls.
Some of them get sneaky. I’ve had the same lender call me with no caller ID and then try me again with a REAL number. It’s not a local number but that doesn’t help me. I talk to people out of the area all the time. So I don’t have a way to screen those out. I fall for it every time and end up talking to the lender. Sneaky sneaky!
Why am I dodging the lenders? Shouldn’t I be talking to them explaining my situation?
I tried. I made an effort to call everybody and explain what’s going on. I was told this is a good thing to do. The lender needs to hear from the borrower. That might help with getting a work-out or a short sale approved.
I don’t get too detailed about it - not like I do on this blog. I simply say that my business has failed and I have no income coming in. Just like my new hardship letter.
So I’ve talked to them. But they still bug me.
Typical Call.
When you call and enter the loan number, the system identifies you as behind on payments. You get transferred directly to their collections department or sometimes “work out” department.
They will ask you why you haven’t made your payment, what your situation is, and based on the situation recommend some options.
If the hardship is temporary they offer a “work-out” of some kind: loan modification, forbearance, etc. If you explain that you can’t keep floating the property at all they talk to you about a short sale, deed-in-lieu (giving them the keys), etc.
They normally want to collect some financial information from you - how much you make, what your expenses are, etc. Basically they are filling out your financial statement on their computer. I never saw any harm to be upfront with them and give them all the numbers. I figure it can’t hurt - they are going to see it with my short sale packet anyway.
I’ve had mixed experiences.
Many of them are cold and pushy. They try to make you feel bad for not making mortgage payments and try to force me to pay one way or another - until I firmly say “I CAN’T MAKE MY PAYMENTS ANYMORE!”
Either that’s their collection tactics (intimidation) or they just hate their job. The negativity of talking to people in trouble all day long probably gets to them after a while.
I have even had one person raise his tone to near yelling! I called to double-check my loan terms - interest rate, maturity date, etc. He wouldn’t answer my questions. Just kept yelling at me trying to ask me why I am not making payments, asking where I work, how much I’m making, etc. I am not going to give out any information with that kind of attitude. That’s the only time I had to hand up.
I’ve had nice ones too. After you talk to them for a while they start to warm up. Really, they’re just people trying to get their job done. Some of them have even given me personal advice on my situation and have shown a little bit of sympathy.
What do you think? Have you been behind and bugged by lenders. What has your experience been? What’s the best way to handle the calls?
45 Comments
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:25 pm
Let me see if I understand this - you can’t pay your bills but you have a $500 Pocket PC phone? Talk about priorities.
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:31 pm
Thank you for your sharing your exerience. I have always wondered how the process works but was too scared to ask. What if the lender gets the wrong impression.
I was wondering if you will ever get a loan again for a very long time. Let us say after a few months you are back on your feet and have a full time job. Now if you want to buy a car or a washing machine, will you get a loan? What about credit cards or even debit cards?
All the best.
Zak
October 3rd, 2006 at 1:46 pm
Hey… I’m working on the “job” part… I’m not sitting around and doing nothing.
John… I bought that phone a while back and I have thought about selling it to get some cash now… but I will not get much for it today.
Zak… I’m trying to avoid foreclosure and bankruptcy so that I don’t have to worry about my credit being REALLY ruined. But if I have to go through it then I will try to repair my credit and get back on my feet. Stay tuned and see what happens.
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:21 pm
I hope you realize that if you obtain short sales the lender will report this to the IRS and any writeoff they have will be income on you. This income will be taxed and not erased by bankruptcy. You obviously screwed yourself and should just cut bait and run. Send the keys to the lenders, file BK and move on with your life.
Rich
October 3rd, 2006 at 2:45 pm
Casey:
Take the job you’ve been “considering.” Because no one–including those who read your blog–is going to take your quest seriously unless you do.
Otherwise, you look like you’re just sitting around waiting for someone to take care of you.
Besides, “they” can’t call you at work.
October 3rd, 2006 at 3:38 pm
Tell them you will walk away and let the bank just take them if they don’t want to short. I hear it’s ~50k to go through the foreclosure process and that’s without holding cost and multiple reductions to sell it. Short now or they pay more later. Be tough one em!
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:08 pm
Rich,
He’s been told many times on this blog already, but appears to be holding out hope that he’ll come out of this relatively unscathed.
Casey,
I assume the current strategy is to wipe out the suspect loans (so they won’t get caught in BK court) and then go into bankruptcy via chapter 7.
But dude, get a job. I doubt you’ll make enough to be kicked out of chapter 7 for that reason. Big blank spaces good bad to employers even before you explain why you had the big blank spaces.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:44 pm
Zak,
Mortgage lenders will always consider a loan for someone with bad credit, but it will cost you a lot. If you can help it, always make your mortgage payments on time.
As far as the consumer loans you described, it will take a year or two to be able to access new credit.
Neither type of lender cares too much about a bankruptcy as long as you have exited it. You could buy a house and a car the day after your bankruptcy has been discharged, but it will cost you.
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:47 pm
Casey,
Don’t feel too bad about the way these collectors are. Think about it this way - in this great economy that’s the best job they can come up with. Their job sucks and the pay is worse.
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:10 pm
Casey said, “I’m trying to avoid foreclosure and bankruptcy so that I don’t have to worry about my credit being REALLY ruined.”
Are you really THAT misinformed? A short sale will still be reported to your credit report as a write off and a 1099 may be issued by the bank. There are a number of things that affect whether you would have tax liability not the least of which is whether you owe more than you paid for the property.
The write off from the short sale will stay on your credit report for at least 7 seven years and it might “accidentally” be there longer.
Quit thinking about taking a job and get one.
I guess you think people are going to take pity on you and donate money via paypal to you.
:rolleyes:
October 3rd, 2006 at 7:57 pm
Casey,
I just want to tell you to ignore completely all the comments that tells you how to deal with your personal life and what might happen in future (or what should happen..). Such comments are not even worth a reply.
Ignore it completely and foucs on the things on priority.
And I still think, u know what is best for you even in this situation. I doubt how many of the commentators will be able keep the head cool in such situation. And I give you that. The courage.
I think you still have *something*, some qualities that average joe don’t have. What is that *something* can be best found by you. and there are some bad qualities (like impatience) that you are learning now abt yourself. But I am sure your good qualities will take you to success. The world is so big. Think as much as wide and open as possible. Do not limit yourself in to “inside box” thinking.
Good luck. -P
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:19 pm
First, get a job to produce sustaining income. Your days of meeting consumption needs with loan proceeds are over.
Second, forget about using any of your job income to service debt. The numbers are simply far too great for your income to play a reversing role.
Third, learn well the bankruptcy laws of your home state (CA?). Meet with several bankruptcy attorneys and select one with whom you feel most comfortable. Together plan out a maximizing strategy for Chapter 7. Alternatively, formulate a plan by which you deed-in-lieu to each of the lenders. You’ll still run the risk of short sale tax impositions on the phantom income from indebtedness forgiveness, but you could probably work out a payment plan with the IRS and get your credit fully restored in 7 yrs instead of 10.
If you think you’re fielding a lot of lender calls now, you ain’t seen nothin’. Until you file, the number of calls and their intensity will escalate. You might want to consider getting a new phone number now (whose number you reveal selectively to close friends & relatives, of course).
Avoid Chapter 13. It’s unlikely the lenders would agree to a plan you could possibly meet, and if you could, the payments of such a plan would be excessively onerous. Under Chapter 7, your credit record is destroyed for a longer period, but you return to a normal life much faster.
Forget about borrowing all but token amounts while your credit record shows a bankruptcy filing. The terms are preposterous. Learn to enjoy life using cash.
So you were too gung-ho and wound up trashing your credit history. You’ll live. But don’t underestimate the predicament you’re in, and don’t confuse the kindness of some strangers with the inevitable ugliness coming your way unless you seek protection from your creditors through the courts.
Good Luck
October 3rd, 2006 at 8:24 pm
Casey -
The only advice I would give you is to price the properties to sell in the next 2-4 weeks and get out.
You’re not the only person to falsely state that you will be occupying the properties when you had no intention to do so, but to do it on this many properties at the same does put you at risk of doing time for mortgage fraud.
October 3rd, 2006 at 10:12 pm
The thought I have about going after the short sales is simple: Go after the most hard-a$$ creditor first
Imagine you sell 4 of 5 houses at short sale. You walk away with 200k worth of forgiven debt, pretty sweet! But now you owe the IRS a bucket of money.
If the last lender forces you into BK, then you owe the tax money (probably not dischargable) AND get the BK mark on your record. Ouch.
October 3rd, 2006 at 10:52 pm
Not for nothing - as we used to say - but aren’t these the same lenders you sent hardship letters to?
I’m sure everytime they call and leave a message they make a note about it in your file(s). I would assume a million unreturned phone messages won’t look good when they are making their final determination about your case.
Anyway, the lenders are the least of your worries. As others have pointed out, I am sure, soon the tax man is going to come a knocking. And he doesn’t do it with snippy messages on your answering service.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:04 pm
If you are serious about getting a job, go to the nearest mall and start filling out applications. This is the holiday hiring season and pretty much everyone will be hiring additional help. Fill out enough applications and odds are you’ll have a job within the week.
You may think you’re too good to be selling shoes, or pouring coffee, or whatever it is you get hired for, but it will at least be honest work.
October 4th, 2006 at 12:22 am
What a fool. Get a job !
October 4th, 2006 at 8:11 am
Here’s a post idea:
Why did you choose to go the short-sale route, which will cause you to have unpayable debt to the IRS?
The IRS debt won’t be wiped out in bankruptcy. The house debt will.
A number of the posters here imply that you don’t understand the IRS bill that you will incur from a short sale. It would address that issue too.
October 4th, 2006 at 8:36 am
Casey -
I find this whole saga fascinating. I think you ought to find an agent and pitch your story as a book or documentary. I think people will dig this, and the money you make off the rights will cover a lot of your costs. Think about it.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:18 am
Answer the phone.
They may not like the answers, but, tell them you are broke,
am looking at bankruptcy and need to discuss a short sale.
October 4th, 2006 at 10:30 am
YB,
Your suggestion would make sense if Casey had been truthful on his loan applications. However, as mentioned in a prior post, debts incurred under:
“(A) false pretenses, a false representation, or actual fraud,
other than a statement respecting the debtor’s or an insider’s
financial condition;”
are NOT dischargeable through bankruptcy.
See:
http://www.washingtonwatchdog......ec523.html
Since Casey has freely admitted that he obtained the loans by false pretenses, his debts will likely not be forgiven via bankrupcy. In this scenario, he will end up owing more than he would to the IRS via short-sale.
BobbyD
October 4th, 2006 at 11:18 am
Rich is right, you need to file bankruptcy instead of just short selling the properties. If you do it through the courts in bankruptcy, you won’t have to deal with the “forgiveness” which is counted as income against you. In other words, you won’t have the IRS breathing down your neck. Specifically, you need to file chapter 7. You will lose everything and probably be put on a payment plan for a while (helps to have a job). After that, you will have a dark stain on your credit report till you are into your 30’s.
On a side note, they will let you keep your car so you can drive to work as long as it’s under a certain value.
October 4th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
OK, in reading your BLOG I see that you are totally screwed. My advice to you is to steal a SSN (after all, many illegal aliens do this) and disappear. I suggest somewhere big, not not too obvious like New York or Florida. Pittsburgh or Cincinatti should be your ticket. Get a job there and move on.
October 4th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
A bunch of idiots gave you a bunch of idiotic comments about positive things. Some even suggested that you will be successful buying and selling houses in the future.
Look you are in deep sheit. There’s absolutely no positivity for your current experience. It will be a miracle if you get out of this and are unharmed. It must be totally retarded if some day you will be buying and selling houses again. Who will lend you the money?
But I have no doubt that you work hard and you’ll make a decent living by simply working hard. Some idiots that gave you positive comments, those are either in the same deep sheit like you or got lucky. I say those are the ones that will have no balls. You know why? When those idiots end up like you having no money left, balls are what they have left to eat with.
October 5th, 2006 at 5:51 pm
t answer. They make it easy to avoid them by not showing their Caller ID. So I don’t even pick up if Caller ID is “Unavailable”. Sometimes they do have Caller ID showing but its an 800 number. I hit the ignore button on my PDA […] Continue Reading October 3rd, 2006
October 5th, 2006 at 6:38 pm
The most important advice is to get a job. If it is low-wage scut-work, all the better for demonstrating good faith to the courts. Seriously. A bad job is better than a good one at this point, so don’t wait for a good one.
October 5th, 2006 at 8:35 pm
Well it finally appears you have a blog entry that actually talks about what it’s like to be in your shoes instead of talking about trying to find a way to come out of this problem with no skin off your back.
Thank you for writing about what it’s like talking to pissed off lenders, I finally learned something from your blog.
October 6th, 2006 at 1:55 pm
Lenders are mean, negative, and angry even when you are making all the payments on time and merely inquiring about info, or increasing your credit line, etc. Bankers are just bad people, period. Something about working with money all day makes them evil. Even me being a good customer isn’t enough for them to be nice. The best I can ever hope for from them is an attitude of indifference, and I’m a platinum customer! Sheesh! I guess it takes a million dollars in the bank or more before they start treating you well…
October 6th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
well, something good may come of this after all. you should investigate how people sell debts to debt collection agencies for pennies on the dollar. you hire people to harass those, not unlike yourself, pay them crap, and then you get to keep any money you collect.
pretty cool, huh?
October 6th, 2006 at 11:27 pm
Casey,
You are allowed to tell the collection department not to harass you. There is a liability to the loan officer or broker who helped you obtain your loans. The lender should also be talking with him/her about how they helped you get into this situation. The notice-of-default arm travels wide and investors often make lenders buy back defaulting loans from the mortgage pool. The lender then calls in the loan officer … if it is a broker they call the broker in. The entire file is reviewed. The lender looks at who was responsible for getting you the loan … even the underwriter who approved you is asked in to meetings. Often, they try to make the broker buy back the loan. Heads do roll ..not only yours.
Keep in mind that you are talking to a collection department and they are paid employees of the LOAN SERVICING company. Look your lenders up on the internet and find their corporate office (which is different from the loan servicer). Call and ask to talk to the CEO. The CEO won’t talk to you, but they will have you talk with someone who is high up in the bank. You need to get to a level above the collection department … someone who has the power to make decisions. You may get someone who can work with you. It is worth a try.
If you were to go to court over this and it looks like the broker helped put you in this bind, the court will look harder at the loan officer and the lender. I am sorry I didn’t find your blog sooner to give you suggestions before today.
Catherine
http://journals.aol.com/rapieress/Aweekinthelife
October 7th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
Regarding the calls in general: Under the FDCPA, it is illegal for collection agencies to call with a bogus number or no number at all showing up on the Caller I.D., and after confirming that they have the person responsible for the note, they must disclose their name and the name of the company they are calling on. As for calling your PDA, it is illegal for collection agencies to contact you on a device that cost you money to recieve the incomming call.
As for you lying on the applications, you have violated federal law and you should kiss your lucky a$$ that you have not been arrested…yet.
October 8th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
Just a thought as you blog away: there’s a very good chance that any lending officer worth their salt will print out your blog entries, responses to comments and all, and clip them right into your file to take to the committee that’s going to decide whether or not to take you to bankruptcy. And, as Time Will Tell points out, it only takes 1 lender to take you to court.
I would keep that in mind as you post pictures of your cell phone and detail your call-ignoring methods.
Just a thought.
October 9th, 2006 at 1:17 am
Casey,
When you think you have failed, you are on the edge of your greatest success. I read that somewhere, don`T remember where. Anywway hang in there, you sound like a very ambitious dude, and you are still hella young. You are going to be a Billionare one day. Stay strong.
October 9th, 2006 at 8:45 pm
“When you think you have failed, you are on the edge of your greatest success. I read that somewhere, don`T remember where. Anywway hang in there, you sound like a very ambitious dude, and you are still hella young. You are going to be a Billionare one day. Stay strong”
Tell that to the 85% plus small businesses that start and fail within 5 years buddy…., he’s already in that 85% and it only took him six months, and it’s not like he just owes 100k either..
October 10th, 2006 at 8:03 am
don’t be so hard on this kid..His Real Estate specualtion and financial mess is no different than what Donald Trump went through in the early 90’s..Trump was insolvent and bakns bailed him out and put him on an allowance. funny that just 15 yeasr later trump is on TV as some genius….Speculatio is just as sleazy now as it was 500 years ago..Heck If casey worked for a hedge fund and blew up like htis he would get hired by someone else real soon…Easy money like we have now is he casue of it..Interest reates were and still are too low..This is helps cause specualtive bubbles.So blmae Alan Greenspan and our culture for making people like Casey think what they were doing was solid…
October 15th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
>> They try to make you feel bad for not making mortgage payments
Hey Casey, I’ll buy your homes for $2.2 Mill, and I promise to pay you the money every month over the next 30 years. Now imagine you sell me the houses and after a few months I decide to stop paying you. You call me, but I don’t answer. Would you ever try to make me feel bad for taking your houses and breaking my promises? This is real money my friend. I bet all those RE seminars required that they be paid in advance — they’re not stupid! What do your high dollar mentors and gurus say now? How much did you spend on your RE ‘education’ at weekend ’seminars’?
October 29th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Casey,
I would like to talk to you about your situation and the possibility of some help for you.
Please contact me at your earliest convenience via my e-mail address. If you don’t have it, please let me know in your blog.
Thanks!
PR
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:31 pm
Well, I’ve just read all of casey’s blogging and the replys. It took me just over an hour. I don’t see how the time he spends doing this would take away from his time searching for a new job. What is so commendable about getting a “real job?” Go work for someone else so that they can become rich off of your labor. Don’t get me wrong…there is nothing wrong with a real job…but there is nothing wrong with wanting to be your own boss either. If everyone wanted to be employees, who would be the employer? We, as free individuals, choose our own destiny in this world. God has given us free will, and America allows us the opportunity to express this. Even in the face of adversity we still have the opportunity to change our lives…make it better. Quality of life!
My uncle worked for GM from the time he was twenty years old. He worked all the overtime he possibly could. Always at least 60 hours a week. He died shortly after retiring. He never had the chance to do all of the things he was waiting for retirement to do. Sure, he made on honest living…but did he really have a life? Was he really happy stuck in that factory all day long? I guess I can’t sy for sure. But, I do know that I do not want to live like that. If you “job lovers” out there want to live like that, more power to ya. Because guys like Casey will always be the owner of the company you work for. Like it or not, hours for dollars will never be able to afford the finer things in life. And don’t misread that statement for being greedy. The “finer” things in life I am refering to is something priceless. But with enough money, and proper focus one can attain this luxury. you know what “it” is? TIME! Enough money can give you the luxury of buying back your time. Though you will never get the time you’ve already wasted at your job. J.O.B. Journey Of the Broke.
Hit it hard Casey. Believe in yourself. Believe that He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. God put us here to succeed in whatever we do.
December 21st, 2006 at 6:51 pm
wasting my time reading this blog is better than wasting my time playing world of warcraft.
We love you Casey, it’s called “tough love” even though we think you’re stupid. No, I mean you’re stupidity is corrupted by greed. Greed will kill you every time.
December 21st, 2006 at 7:49 pm
“Believe in yourself. Believe that He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. God put us here to succeed in whatever we do.”
Awesome. Everything else you say about a j.o.b. is right too.
But he is 24 years old and needs to get one. Typical generation Y-Me sense of entitlement and greed got him in this mess.
February 15th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
I got tired of people blocking their phone number when calling me so I got my own “800″ number which always displays the real number of the incoming call. For a few cents per minute, it is certainly worth it!!!
March 6th, 2007 at 9:29 am
Casey, I am going through the same thing and don’t know what to do. I let someone talk me into buying 6 properties at the max amount, but I paid no down payment or closing costs, so it appeared to be a great deal (free houses). I can’t keep renters in them, so they have been vandalized and stripped of all contents. I need help.