Sunday, July 29, 2007

I Got a Real Estate Job!

For those wondering. Yes, I did get a real estate job that meets my criteria! I’m working for Chris, a fellow real estate investor here in the Sacramento area. He is a young guy too - in his late 20’s - but is kicking butt in real estate.

I met Chris a few months ago at a local real estate investor’s club. We have been staying in touch and he has been following my foreclosure story for the past couple of months. He has offered advice from time to time, and for the past couple of weeks he has been offering me a job to work for him because his real estate business is really growing right now.

It sounded very good, but at the time I was considering a few other opportunities that I was getting from the exposure on my blog. I knew that taking the safe secure job was the better way to go, but I was caught up in the excitement of meeting Robert Kiyosaki and others, and I was just unsure about what to do.

Well, Chris has offered to hire me as a consultant with a $3,000 per month base salary! Once I prove myself then I can begin earning a cut from some of his deals and/or commission. My services will include helping him develop and manage a database, improve his office technology, organize and file paperwork, and assist with his buyers / sellers / bird dogs / investors / sales / marketing.

It’s nice to have something stable yet flexible. Chris is aware of my blog and he is encouraging me to continue blogging and sharing my story with others that may benefit from it. He agrees with many of you that I should settle down a bit and focus on my personal finances and that I should not be so impulsive. He also believes that I have what it takes to make a comeback in real estate investing.

I’m not sure if I will be able to stick to a Nine to Five - I’m naturally a work-a-holic so the 9-5 thing was just my idealistic desire to contain my work and give me a little bit of balance. And as some of you have noticed, I have already been breaking my own guidelines. I’m in a tight spot so I need to work as hard as I must. I am still facing foreclosure on 4 houses and have about $140,000 in unsecured debt.

On the other hand, I must make time for my duties as a husband and have a little personal time for things like connecting with my Maker, exercise/gym, reading personal development books, etc. I know what it’s like to burn out - from my previous attempts at entrepreneurship. I will just have to play it by ear and work out a reasonable schedule as I go.

With the flexibility of this new job, I will continue blogging about how I am getting out of my mess with foreclosures. Eventually my goal is to get back into some real estate deals and wholesaling on the side to make some quick cash. This way I can repay the money I borrowed or as much of it as I can. I’m still trying to avoid bankruptcy and minimize my lenders’ losses.

Chris and I agreed to do a trial run until January 1st, 2007. If we like each other we’ll continue forward. Otherwise we’ll part as friends. Win-win.

I should be able to finally stabilize my personal finances a little bit and focus on getting out of this foreclosure mess. Thanks to Chris for this opportunity. It’s a blessing!
Flipping Houses in a Down Market?
Why is My Credit Score So High?
110 Comments

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Blah
November 15th, 2006 at 7:12 pm

Hmm…$3k per month…

Is that before or after taxes? Is he paying you under the table?
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Real Estate Non-Mogul
November 15th, 2006 at 7:17 pm

okay…
now you are given a chance to prove yourself worthy to him by Jan 2007.
You need to work your ass off FOR HIM.
Don’t mess it up. This may be your one last opportunity to get back into the game.
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Rob P
November 15th, 2006 at 7:18 pm

Um, Casey: I don’t think a consultancy with a late-20s guy who hasn’t been doing real estate for that long is what people had in mind in urging you to find employment. I suppose you have to find some port in this storm, but this sure don’t sound like it. What if his ability to kick butt in the RE world is akin to yours?
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SCapitalist
November 15th, 2006 at 7:24 pm

Congrats on the RE job. I am envious, I have been trying to get into RE for the past 8 months. You have skills… hopefully you will be able to market this guys listings as well as you have marketed you blog. Keep us informed.
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T.White
November 15th, 2006 at 7:26 pm

“have a little personal time for things like connecting with my Maker”

“It’s a blessing! ”

When Ken Lay was convicted, he appeared (to me) to play up the ‘God’ role:

“I don’t fear jail because I know I’m not guilty. I know I did nothing wrong. I did nothing criminal and I also believe my God will get me through this.”

As a result of his death, his conviction was overturned as he couldn’t (being dead) appeal the conviction.

My thought is that his actions undoubtedly pissed off a lot of people; maybe his words pissed off his God?
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Curiosity
November 15th, 2006 at 7:28 pm

Did you sign a contract with him? How are you being paid?

Eventually my goal is to get back into some real estate deals and wholesaling on the side to make some quick cash.

Why?
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Pete
November 15th, 2006 at 7:33 pm

I guess by now you realize that wholesaling is where the money’s at (ie, conning some naive wannabe investor into overpaying for some old dump that nobody wants, which is what someone did to you with that POS house in Dallas). Don’t you have more morals than that?
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Casey Serin
November 15th, 2006 at 7:47 pm

Wholesaling, if done right, is a great way to make some quick cash in RE without actually buying a house. It’s a win-win thing if done ethically and above board.
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Catherine
November 15th, 2006 at 7:57 pm

Ok Casey,
Speaking from someone who gets paid to consult in this industry - he is getting you very, very cheap. Make sure you have one hell of a contract that spells out exactly what your bonus compensation is. Be careful who you trust int his industry…
Catherine
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Jake
November 15th, 2006 at 8:10 pm

He hired you as a consultant knowing your track record and current predicament? What’s he going to do, ask you for your advice and then just do the opposite?
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Rancid
November 15th, 2006 at 8:14 pm

I’m glad that you are taking this job and passing up a REAL job…because come 2007 with all those ARMS resetting, this guy is going to be going down the toilet and bring you with him.
But don’t worry, with your child like optimism and almost supernatural ability to smell out a great opportunity, I’m sure you are doing the right thing. It will be a win win for me to watch you continue to bulldoze your way into a field that everyone who is really in the know, and has way more experience than you or your new friend is already bailing out of.
Am I hoping that you fail? No, you already have. I just hope that you don’t sucker more people into your schemes..but then again..you have integrity right?

He is testing you out for 1.5 months(what a long test out period..you’ve been blogging this crap twice as long and how many real estate deals have you done besides your foreclosures?)? Wow, by that time, he would have gotten all the computer work he needs out of you, his office will be computer updated and set up, and he can tell you “ummm, it’s not working out, I just realized, you’re kind of a retard and you’re a pathological liar”. If he really thought you were such a great catch (because of you wheeling dealing success lol) he would have asked you to sign on for at least 6 months(Give you some real time to prove yourself). Or does he really believe that as soon as Jan 1 2007 comes around real estate will do a 180?
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Rancid
November 15th, 2006 at 8:16 pm

“Wholesaling, if done right, is a great way to make some quick cash in RE without actually buying a house. It’s a win-win thing if done ethically and above board.”

Hmm, and you are living proof that
1. You can succeed doing this
2. Your past deals have been win win
3. You are not above lying on your loans or lying in your scam letters to friends…ie, you are ethical.

Save the clap trap Casey, you are feces.
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yneone
November 15th, 2006 at 8:20 pm

We’re all very proud of you Casey. Keep your head-up.
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Robert Coté
November 15th, 2006 at 8:38 pm

$3,000 per month base salary! Once I prove myself then I can begin earning a cut from some of his deals and/or commission. My services will include helping him develop and manage a database, improve his office technology, organize and file paperwork, and assist with his buyers / sellers / bird dogs / investors / sales / marketing.

Secretary, office assistant, gofer; $15/hr. $3000/mo income vs $20,000/mo expenses. Worst case of clue deficit disorder I’ve ever even imagined. The time for a job was September. Time now to board up the windows. Oh, wait, the property owners have boarded up the windows. Time now to arrange DILs. Oh wait, that time passed. At this stage the only thing “gainful employment” will bring is a judge garnishing wages, and when you lose the job you’ll need to go back to the judge and explain. Nevermind Fonzie, you’ve jumped the shark.

Besides, remember your shing example of your paperwork and organizational skills posted a few weeks ago? Why would you punish this person with your efforts? Makes as much sense as living with relatives when you’ve got two vacant houses in the area.
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Sir Cornholeo
November 15th, 2006 at 8:45 pm

WOW…a 1 month tryout timeframe.

Now the creditors have a paycheck to garnish.
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Mtgpro
November 15th, 2006 at 8:49 pm

Great news! Now go kick butt!
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The Man
November 15th, 2006 at 8:53 pm

If you are going to be making new software (you say databases), I would advise once again, use .NET. You may not even be familiar with it right now but if you load it up and use it in a production environment to gain some experience, you will gain that experience much more quickly than taking classes or reading a book. If you are writing desktop applications and know VB, there is not much difference. If you are writing web applications, there might be a little more to learn, especially since you come from a PHP background.

It seems to me that this guy has given you a job in the RE field but for your computer experience. Any way you cut it, you are getting a job because of your technical know-how. Maybe you can parlay this into a “real” RE job. Maybe not. Who knows. If it doesn’t happen, I think you want to have a fallback skill. Computer programming is a pretty good skill. But you can’t go to large companies and say “Dude, I’m going to write enterprise applications for you in PHP”. This doesn’t work. You seem to have the communication skills to be able to go in and say “Sir, I propose a standards-based web enabled enterprise application written in Microsoft .NET” But, you need to know .NET!

Do yourself a favor, while you have the chance here learn something useful in case you need a fall back position.

P.S. While you are happy to be making $3K a month doing this job which may only go six weeks, I am making $10K a month in a far cheaper area of the country because I know how to say “Sir, I propose a standards-based web enabled enterprise application written in Microsoft .NET” and back it up.

That’s my 2E-2 dollars worth.
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Joseph
November 15th, 2006 at 8:54 pm

Birds of a feather.

So we have Casey, a CROOK and a FRAUD. His friend hires him with said knowledge, so his friend must be a CROOK too?

You guys are going to enjoy working together, I just know it!
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walt526
November 15th, 2006 at 8:58 pm

There’s been talk about putting polls up on this site. How about betting lines? Some ideas…

What are the odds that Casey still has this job after 01/01/07?

What are the odds that Mr and Mrs Serin are still Mr and Mrs Serin this time next year?

What are the odds that Casey isn’t spending next Thanksgiving in a minimum security prison?

Congrats on the new job. I have serious doubts about whether or not its going to work out, but good luck with it.
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Unbelievable
November 15th, 2006 at 9:36 pm

Work-a-holic and Casey Serin are NOT 2 words that I would ever expect to be used in the same sentence.

That being said, I agree, you had better START working your ass off.
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RB
November 15th, 2006 at 9:41 pm

Casey… you have a RE addiction and this is not the way to break it. This is like an alcoholic who instead of fully bottoming out on skid row gets a job in a bar. You need to be running as far away from RE as you possibly can.

This is yet another reason that your wife should be kicking you to the curb.
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Jonny Jon
November 15th, 2006 at 9:54 pm

Congrats Casey. Glad to hear that you’re going to work a little. And it sounds like you’ll get paid too. When you have the time, do tell more about the job, the boss and what you’re learning from him?
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Vague Guru
November 15th, 2006 at 10:59 pm

Don’t tell me, let me guess, your new job is with the guy who loaned you the three grand. You can’t pay him back the $2k with interest, so he is making you work off the balance.
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Kingmambo
November 15th, 2006 at 11:01 pm

Without fuel they were nothing. They built a house of straw. The thundering machines sputtered and stopped. Their leaders talked and talked and talked. But nothing could stem the avalanche. Their world crumbled. The cities exploded. A whirlwind of looting, a firestorm of fear. Men began to feed on men.

On the roads it was a white line nightmare. Only those mobile enough to scavenge, brutal enough to pillage would survive. The gangs took over the highways, ready to wage war for a tank of juice. And in this maelstrom of decay, ordinary men were battered and smashed.

Except for one man armed with an AK-47, and a Honda full of silver.
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M. Morrison
November 15th, 2006 at 11:04 pm

What about local Rich Dad?

Does this violate your contract with PrLinkBiz?

Does Chris have a website?
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Cheers
November 15th, 2006 at 11:17 pm

yneone,
Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
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Laughing my ass off
November 15th, 2006 at 11:28 pm

Carolyn, the self proclaimed “expert consultant”:
“Ok Casey,
Speaking from someone who gets paid to consult in this industry - he is getting you very, very cheap”

If he’s getting Casey for very, very cheep, I’m sure you’d be happy to hire Casey for triple that wage; go for it Carolyn. Casey has proven make a bundle for himself as well as anyone he is associated with.
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Laughing my ass off
November 15th, 2006 at 11:29 pm

Make that Catherine not Carolyn
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Laughing my ass off
November 15th, 2006 at 11:42 pm

Casey,
I’m happy to see you are still drinking the guru kool-aid.
The Casey show would end with out an endless suppily of Guru Kool-aid to keep up your ungrounded optimism about real estate investing.

Casey purchased the house he lived in and it went up in value. So Casey thinks, wow I’m a real estate investor.

If Casey received stock from a company he worked for, and the stock went up, he would buy 8 times that amount on 1000% margin because he would think he had something to do with the stock going up.

Casey, If you ever go to jail it will be no big deal because you’ll just put on your rose colored glasses and believe you are not in jail at all but on a beach somewhere.
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Michael Cooke
November 15th, 2006 at 11:48 pm

Hmm. $3000 per month if received “under the table” (i.e. no taxes) is actually the same as a $41,400 (taxed) salary.

I applaud Casey’s honesty.

On the contrary we have one of the commenter’s who calls himself “the man”. The man says “I am making $10K a month in a far cheaper area of the country”.

Isn’t it funny how almost everyone overstates their income and job titles now and days?

Let me give you an example. Your local junk yard attendant is actually not a “junk yard attendant”. He’s the “regional managing director” of an “equipment recycling facility”. His income in case you didn’t know - is $70,000 per year.

And that guy that towed my car last night? With a 0.9 blood alcohol content - that smelled like a marijuana cigarette? He was actually an “automotive logistics consultant”.

This is a phenomenon I’ve noticed over the past 10 years. Everyone reading this blog knows what I’m talking about. Society judges people by their income. And as a result everyone tells lies. The thing is that there is really no way to know. How convenient.

Casey you are the first person I’ve heard of in a long time that makes $36,000 per year….
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Mr. Flipper
November 15th, 2006 at 11:52 pm

Pete,

Wholesaling can’t be done unethically in the long run. Word spreads.

Casey’s situation notwithstanding, let me describe some ethical patterns (not necessarily profitible, but at least common methods I see used).

What I’m thinking here is that some are confused by the term “wholesaling” and/or “flipping”. It has different meanings to different people.

When I “flip” a property, I cannot afford to engage in some kind of smoke and mirrors scam with an end-user. I’ll get sued! Since I’m a professional, guess what clout I have with the judge, against a disgruntled home buyer? The answer is: Zip.

Meanwhile let me describe three kinds of “wholesaling or flipping” to get more people on the same page when discussing how this can be ethically done.

1) “Wholesale Flipping”. I locate a property and put it under contract. Then, I assemble a prospectus which includes a copy of the signed contract, and estimate of repairs, a title and termite reports, closing estimate, including my referral fee, a complete appraisal, and misc. supporting documents that I present to an investor, or speculator for consideration to purchase. This is a “cost, plus my finders fee”, wholesale transaction. When the investor says, “Yes, I’ll buy it.”, I then assign the contract to him/her and they complete the closing, and I collect my money.

2) Wholesale Fix & Flip: Sometimes, however I will buy a junk pile outright at 10-30% of ARV (after repaired value); solve only the structural code violations, assemble a prospectus, and sell the property for my minimum profit, plus whatever I can sell it for in 30-days, or less. In the meantime, I leave all the remaining repairs/upgrades/improvements for the professional investor to deal with.

3) Retail Fix & Flip: This is the most commonly known approach used by mom and pop operations. These are “Retail Flippers”. They usually buy only cosmetically-challenged houses purchased at 85 to 90% of retail value. These “investors” completely renovate the property with the intention of reselling it to a retail buyer. This is known as “Retail flipping”.

Retail flipping is NOT wholesaling. Wholesaling is when a property is being sold in its as-is state, from Investor-seller to an Investor-buyer.

Retail flipping IS the approach most commonly seen on TV. This is also where most newbie flippers think they need to start. As a result it is also the most risky, and dangerous strategy possible for them. The profit margins are usually non-existent from the get go because these are amateurs buying just a little under retail, and trying to sell AT retail (or above).

In normal markets, if any flipper cannot afford to sell the property in 30 days for a 15% ARV, retail discount, and still make a profit, then he/she paid too much in the first place, and/or over-improved the property. Either way, they paid too much.

Anyway that was my attempt at describing three, HONEST, if not basic flipping patterns I know anything about.
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Rudy
November 15th, 2006 at 11:56 pm

Uh-Oh…..Here is a guy going to the Pokey for:

Getting cash back at closing
Lying on his mortgage application

http://www.mortgagefraudblog.c.....ng_scheme/
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Nigel Swaby
November 16th, 2006 at 12:01 am

Great news Casey! I think you’ll find being out in the workforce and getting a stable source of income will clear your head a bit and reduce stress.

I really hope your other home sells like you posted recently. You know, some people perceive you as a stupid guy who made idiot moves and owes a bunch of money. I see you as a remarkable person who took a horrible situation and is making good.

Consider this. Two months ago you were unemployed and facing foreclosure on six homes. Today, you’ve avoided foreclosure on all but one home, you are gainfully employed, you write a successful blog and you’ve had more publicity than most people will have in a lifetime. Pretty impressive.

Keep your head up and keep going.

Nigel

P.S. Move into one of the homes now…at least temporarily.
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mejustme
November 16th, 2006 at 12:37 am

Come on, people, lighten up. At least Casey got himself a job with an actual salary; I was fearing for a minute there it was going to be all commission or a trade for “mentoring.” He needs a paycheck coming in, temporarily or not! (Most jobs stipulate a probationary period, anyway.)

I mean he finally takes our advice in one aspect of his life and maybe it’s not exactly what YOU would have him do, but jobs are tough to get, so how ’bout a high-five, way to go, pat on the back?
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John
November 16th, 2006 at 12:49 am

he might be capitalizing on your unique skills and experience. just don’t touch his accounting spreadsheet!!!!
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yneone
November 16th, 2006 at 12:51 am

Sir Cornholeo
November 13th, 2006 at 7:53 pm

Sir, I thought the above post was your last post at Casey’s website. You are more delusional than most! You need this website in order to entertain your sorry azz.
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UncleC
November 16th, 2006 at 2:38 am

Gotta luv it. Casey writes: “I’m not sure if I will be able to stick to a Nine to Five…..” but then morphs that the other way, into something about being a workaholic, lol… I give you about one day of 9-5 before you revert to type, something like 2-3? What about your office at RD’s? Your computer consulting there?

Please post us some pics of your new office. Will the blue ball come with you? Good luck with it! Hope you can prove us wrong by holding up a 3 grand paycheck on 12/31.
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Sputnik the Cat
November 16th, 2006 at 4:20 am

WOW, Casey. A job in a REAL ESTATE OFFICE. Who else works there?

Shelley Levene?
Ed Moss?
George Aaronow?
Ricky Roma???

“I made $970,000 dollars last year. How much did you make?”
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Sean
November 16th, 2006 at 4:33 am

casey,

how do you go about ‘wholesaling’ houses without buying them? you just buy low and sell high? sounds easy…
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Gunde
November 16th, 2006 at 4:38 am

Congratulations!

Now get an evening job as well. :-) But anyway, congrats!
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benjie
November 16th, 2006 at 6:35 am

I thought casey was renting an apartment with his wife? did he now move in with relatives and not post it?
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StingyFinance
November 16th, 2006 at 6:47 am

Casey, congrats on getting a job! Hopefully you can now start to turn things around. I look forward to hearing how your new venture goes.

Joe
http://www.StingyFinance.com
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Dan
November 16th, 2006 at 6:56 am

You could make a minimum of $75,000 per year if you went back to web development, correct? That would equate to monthly paychecks of around $3750 after taxes (used 40% for tax + SS + other deductions).

Instead, you’ve accepted a job that pays $3000/mo. BEFORE taxes. That equates to a $36,000 per year salary with a $2100/mo. after tax paycheck (only used 30% for the lower salary).

I’m not sure how much that extra $1650 per month would help since you are already $2 million+ in the hole, but it sure as hell couldn’t hurt. Plus, having a job away from real estate may make you realize how delusional you really were to think that you had a future in real istate “investing” (read: speculation, gambling, flushing money down the toilet).

Here’s a reality check. I’m roughly the same age as you. I have a real job that clears more than your pre-tax salary. I own my own house (and live in it), and I bought a brand new car 2 years ago. I put in my 40 hours per week, and have plenty of time to enjoy myself. I also have a formal education (and real estate seminars DO NOT COUNT AS FORMAL EDUCATION). I may not be independently wealthy by your standards, but at least I am self-supporting and not in debt up to my eyeballs.

I’m glad that you failed in your get-rich-quick scheme because people that choose to follow that path in life do not deserve to be independently wealthy. The world does not owe you anything…quit believing that it does.
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Take Some Responsibilty
November 16th, 2006 at 7:04 am

Let’s see… I earn thousands of dollars a week for my consulting services. I earn at my level because of valuable experience. That experience includes a track record of proven success - not a constant series of idiotic mistakes.

Has Casey been hired because of a track record of failure? If so, the world has turned upside-down.

Oh… Hang on. I get it. We are talking about a guy who calls himself an active “investor” in what is the biggest bubble in modern history, currently deflating at a rapid rate.

So this “job” is just wealth transfer between two fools, then.

Yneone : “We’re all very proud of you Casey.”
- Speak for yourself, dingbat.
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arizonadude
November 16th, 2006 at 7:31 am

Hope the new job works out. 3K a month is not that bad. Hopefully you can learn a little and continue bird dogging and wheeling and dealing on the side.Knock em dead mr casey serin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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LOL
November 16th, 2006 at 7:32 am

This guy is using the RE hook to use you as cheap clerical and IT labor. If you could get the idea of getting rich quick in RE out of your head for a minute and sell your IT skills to some of the contacts you’ve made you could be making 3k a week instead of 3k a month.
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Joey
November 16th, 2006 at 8:40 am

Hi Casey, let’s see here:

$3,000 / 4 weeks = $750 a week

$750 a week / 40 hours = $18.75 an hour

You are working for $18.75 an hour, before taxes. Maybe even less, since I know you’ll end up putting in more hours to get side projects completed, wrap up “deals”, stay a few hours later into the night for some “education”. Just you wait and see…

How is that going to cover your living expenses and credit card debt on $18.75 an hour, BEFORE TAXES?

Casey, no offense, but you’re a mark. Someone paints a pretty picture in your mind, and you fall for it.

Why can’t you think things through??? What the hell is wrong with you? If you were my little brother, I would smack some sense into you. But you’re not.. you’re just a guy I read about on the computer.

Did your wife go for this?
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Jobu
November 16th, 2006 at 8:45 am

This is a techie job in a RE company (I guess it’s a company), not a RE job. Maybe Casey can learn .Net but I seriously doubt he could get (and hold) a .Net job with a real company as he does not seem to have the mindset to WORK at a job such as that. My guess would be if miracle upon miracle, he got hired at such a job, he would spend all day trying to get back into RE, like a crack head, and his employer would boot him out when he missed his development deadlines. He has shown no ability to meet any kind of deadline in anything.

He has no track record to give any company confidence in him. His best bet would be to find (con) someone into bringing him in on a job already established so he could basically hide and hopefully produce. The problem there is who would be willing to do such a thing. Assuming some .Net consultant had a gig in a good company, why would they be willing to take a chance on Casey coming in and screwing things up and getting said consultant kicked out as well?
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KruziTürkn
November 16th, 2006 at 9:12 am

I own a software consulting company. A junior PHP programmer makes a minimum of $35 per hour. Let’s see 40 * 35 = 1400 * 4 (1 month) = 5600. A good programmer can make up to $85 or more per hour. You are so dumb. If stupidity would hurt, you’d be screaming all day long.
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LMAOROTF
November 16th, 2006 at 9:53 am

I bet that this “job” does not last. Ditto the marriage.

This casey guy should get a real job and take his financial lumps. Now he is going to skip on paying taxes? Nice additional charge to go with the frauds.
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aaron
November 16th, 2006 at 10:13 am

KruziTürkn,
I don’t think Casey is a good programmer. He’s probably your typical low end guy that knows the basics. nothing special. I doubt he knows .net or any other backend programming. His kind are a dime a dozen. Granted he would make more than the 3k a month he got for a 6 week trial period.
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Jip
November 16th, 2006 at 10:14 am

Congrats on the job!

My personal advice is to;

1. Focus on your probation period to become permant

2. FORGET about ANY wholesale or quick cash stuff for now. It will only cause you to get further into dept. Channel that energy into getting disciplined about spending any money you make. This impulsive behavior will be your downfall no matter how much money you make.
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Josh
November 16th, 2006 at 10:17 am

Casey, do yourself a favor and burn all those rich dad poor dad books, forget EVERYTHING they taught (or a better word would be misguided) and get back to reality. Your friend/employer should be falling on his face financially as well soon. Go out and get a REAL job.
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Chris Johnson
November 16th, 2006 at 10:23 am

Hmmmmmmmmmm, I’m wondering what the comments would be if he found a job at $200,000 a year. Still something like “What a dumbf*ck you are, Casey! I pull $400,000 out of my a** every day! And I bought a new Escort this year with power steering!” People, he got a job, one that (let’s hope) pays with real money. And yes, of course his employer wants something out of it, most likely computer work–as long as Casey keeps that in mind, and adds value at work, he’ll be able to keep this job. Or even find a better one, and perhaps start living in the real world. The best way to learn what you want to do is to learn from successful people, so I’m also hoping he pays attention to the people who are actually making money in real estate, not the ones who say they are (much like the commenters here claiming to make oodles of money).

So please, stop beating the guy up because he’s working! More likely you’re beating him up because you like beating up on him. Yes, he is exasperating and makes monumentally bad choices, but not EVERY choice has been bad–show some discretion in the criticism.

One more thing–I constantly hear (some) people working for me complain that they could make so much money elsewhere, or that their friends are making soooooooooo much money elsewhere. I invite them to take those jobs, and have yet to see any of them go. Why? Because the jobs don’t exist, or a few of them exist for top performers, and people who complain about how much they make are usually not top performers. Top performers don’t have to prove to me how much they make or how good they are, or about their new Escort with the sport-striping. I’m digressing here, but am tired of the b.s. I’m seeing here.

Or maybe I should just add to the b.s., and I’ll say I make $5k before I get out of bed every morning, and another $5k just while I’m taking a piss.
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Chris Johnson
November 16th, 2006 at 10:25 am

BTW, lol at Sputnik’s post…”First prize, a Cadillac Eldorado. Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is, you’re fired!”
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Josh(Ga)
November 16th, 2006 at 10:46 am

Hey Casey

You are now taking the steps into the right direction. Remember just because you work a full time job doesn’t mean you have to give up anything. Family, real estate and all that stuff is important. Right now those the most important thing in the world for you is to work your ass off for this guy and get your footing. I dont mean work for a couple of months, then quit or get back into real estate. I mean work for a LONG TIME by working and doing real estate on the side you will have some flexability and not so much stress.

The key is just to find peace and balance within yourself. While your blog and real estate is important. Remember that your duty as a husband is the most important. I too believe with time you can become a great real estate investor. Just remember to always think before you do. So, step one is to work and start paying off bills and etc. keep it up casey and remember nobody gets rich quick. Everything takes step.

Josh
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The Man
November 16th, 2006 at 10:52 am

Just to set the record straight for Michael Cooke and possibly others.

I don’t tell my friends or my parents what I make. I am telling Casey what I make because of the anonymity of the Internet. I am not overstating my income. I am trying to be of service to Casey in a roundabout way by showing him that an intelligent and educated person can make good money doing regular work rather than trying to hit it big in get-rich quick schemes.

I understand that taking the alias The Man doesn’t really lend any credibility to my statements. At first, I took this handle with the intention of being a smartass rather than dispensing advice. Because of Casey’s situation, I have decided to play this straight and dispense advice.

Jobs in the computer industry run a huge gamut in terms of salary. $120 a year is obviously in the top few percent, but as obvious as this, there are some people in the top few percent.

In terms of full disclosure, I will make $120 this year by a combination of making a base salary right at $100 plus additional consulting. I have 15 years of experience, a college degree, and I have the advantage of being a fairly good communicator and a nice guy to work with.

As an example of a similar job, I went out to Monster and entered “.NET” and “distributed” as search words and looked for a job in this range. It wasn’t hard. The very first job I found pays $110-$120. Don’t tell me these jobs do not exist.

NYC:

http://jobsearch.monster.com/g.....cjvlid=550

NC:

http://jobsearch.monster.com/g.....cjvlid=512

FL:

http://jobsearch.monster.com/g.....cjvlid=389

These are great jobs. You can make yourself indispensible and then ask for $10K more, no problem.

Learn .NET or J2EE. Hell, I saw a posting on Dice a while back where a company wants a CICS/PL1 programmer in Texas and will pay $65 an hour! For someone with expertise in a 35 year old technology!
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Mike
November 16th, 2006 at 11:02 am

Catherine, consultants pay is all over the map. The green-ist consultant at one of the big firms in Manhattan will make about 50k. If you’re advising Casey that he’s getting ripped off, you must understand that consultant’s pay is based on their experience. How much do you think that Casey is worth.

Casey, I thought that your minimum monthly bills were 3 grand. After taxes, you’ll be lucky to pull $2,200. Where’s the other money coming from or are you moving into the tax evasion arena now?
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Sigh
November 16th, 2006 at 11:56 am

I love how people are bending over backwards to accommodate your poor decision making skills. When are people like you going to get tough love instead of everything handed to you on a silver platter.
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RB
November 16th, 2006 at 12:06 pm

Fess up Casey… Did Vague Guru guess what’s going on here? Is your new boss the guy you borrowed the cash from?

(If so, at least it’s better than getting kneecapped)
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Rancid
November 16th, 2006 at 12:09 pm

I mean he finally takes our advice in one aspect of his life and maybe it’s not exactly what YOU would have him do, but jobs are tough to get, so how ’bout a high-five, way to go, pat on the back?

Screw him, I’d rather give him five across the face, an “about time dumbass”, and a kick in the ass. But that’s just me.
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Free advice
November 16th, 2006 at 12:24 pm

Mr. Flipper:

I think what you’re saying is something that I’d advise anyone to do in any industry … add marginal utility.

I think it’s that Reed guy who says that being successful in the “fixer” business really means selling fixers, not buying them.

In other words, instead of buying a house that needs “cosmetics” and turning it into a perfect dream home, the more profitable approach is to take a disaster and turn it into a house that needs “cosmetics”

That’s actually probably good advice — because that’s what adds the most utility. I doubt most middle-class homeowners would mind buying a house that needs “cosmetics” if they perceived enough of a savings. So a “flipper” who does these cosmetics isn’t really adding much utility to the equation.

However, most homeowners would steer clear of a house with major construction issues. Only a buyer with a great deal of experience would take on that kind of a project. Taking a house like this and turning into a cosmetic fixer adds a great deal of utility.

Note, I used the term “adding utility” instead of “adding value” because that’s how an economist would look at these activities. “Value” has a lot of baggage that goes with it because it implies “price.”

And marginal utility is really where it’s at, because that’s how buyers evaluate their decisions — measuring marginal utility against marginal cost.

For example, what’s the marginal utility of an extra bedroom?

I think you’ll find, for example, that the marginal utility of a 4th bedroom in a neighborhood full of 4 bedroom homes is far higher than the marginal utility of a 4th bedroom in a neighborhood full of 3 bedroom homes.

By the way Casey, whatever you do in your new job, be sure to add marginal utility. If your marginal utility is higher than your marginal cost for your employer, he’ll keep you on. If not he won’t.
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bill_fogarty
November 16th, 2006 at 12:27 pm

$3k a month? That’s only $36K a year. And that’s for a job that’s not even a “sure thing” until proving yourself until January. You could do .Net or Java for webpages for literally any of a hundred companies in that area of California and make over twice that salary.

Dude you’re good at webpages, why don’t you use that talent to make money instead of letting it dwindle away, unused.

You say you believe in a Maker, fine. Well, if you are good at something like webpages, then maybe God gave you a talent for that, and that is what you should be using to earn your income.

I have never seen someone who so squandered their talents.
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Joseph
November 16th, 2006 at 12:36 pm

Congrats Casey.

Have you set a dead line for your next buy to flip? What is holding you back?

Or are you in the middle of buying right now?

Come on man, get on with the flipping program!
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Granite Counter Flop
November 16th, 2006 at 1:13 pm

Rudy: Stop spamming your sh*t site. Nobody is going to read your lame mortgage blog. Let go of Casey’s pigtails.

Casey: Get real, ditch this RE business and get a job doing PHP from someone who pays better than that.
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Casey Serin
November 16th, 2006 at 1:41 pm

Yes, I’m still working at my local rich dad’s office for now since I’m an independent contractor and have flexibility in my work location. I meet with Chris at his office location when necessary. That may or may not change going forward. We’ll see. And NO, Chris is NOT the guy who I borrowed $2,000 from.

Able Buyer and Finch Properties…

Apparently somebody is making a big deal out of the fact that I registered some business names to do my real estate business under. What’s wrong with having a business name? I’m not messing around - my intent is to be in business and make money. That’s why I need a good brand.

Finch Properties was the original idea but then I decided to drop that name in favor of AbleBuyer, which I like much better. As you can see from www.Ablebuyer.com I’m currently re-grouping. You can add yourself to the mailing list to be notified of a re-launch.
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Diomedes
November 16th, 2006 at 1:59 pm

I have to agree with “The Man” and his posts.

I am also in the software field with programming background in both PHP and .NET. (I wouldn’t touch java or JSP with a ten meter cattleprod)

And for full disclosure, I make $110k a year base salary. With bonus, employee stock purchase plans and stock options), I usually bring in closer to $130k per year. I am not trying to boast; I am merely indicating the lucrative nature of that industry. Now because I have 10 years of experience versus Casey, I don’t expect him to bring in that amount. But nonetheless, depending on area, there are many top paying jobs in those fields. I also agree that while PHP is good knowledge, expanding the knowledge set to include .NET is invaluable since enterprise class web applications need the versatility and more broad-based functionality that .NET offers. (Despite the fact that it is IE/Windows specific)

So if any additional advice could be given to Casey is this: you have the opportunity to have a very lucrative future in these fields. And yes, these jobs exist. I have periodically tested the waters in the job market and more often than not, I have to remove my resume after a while due to the amount of responses I get. But the point here is: do something tangible with your life. Real Estate is not a holy grail cash cow. In good times, its great. In bad times, well, its BAD. Think of the dot.com debacle of 2000? How many flash in the pan stock brokers and televangilists sporting their “fool proof trading systems” inundated the airwaves back then? Now, its the same rubbish but in a different package; i.e. real estate.

Now while I am proud of the fact Casey has found some “work”, I still think he is stuck in bubble mode and assumes this current housing dilemma will right itself shortly. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we are seeing now, as bad as it looks, is only the tip of the iceberg. 2007 will be a year of reckoning to many and will likely spill into 2008-2009. Don’t listen to shills like David Lereah who says it is a “minor correction” and will have a “soft landing”. Listen to the Robert Shillers, the Warren Buffett’s and the George Soros’ of the world. They are impartial and can clearly see how this will end. Remember, it took 2 1/2 years for the NASDAQ to find bottom. The last real estate downturn in California took 4 years to hit bottom. The Japanese are STILL to THIS DAY looking at downward pressure on their real estate market. A full 17 years after the 1989 peak.
The current housing situation has been in existance in some form or another (depending on region) for almost 10 years. Historically, in housing, the duration of the downturn often matches the duration of the downturn.

Here is a great chart that demonstrates that:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....5-2006.gif

Well, all I can say is good luck. I just don’t want my tax dollars used to bail out these individuals a few years down the road when this snafu hits in full force.
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JM
November 16th, 2006 at 2:05 pm

Casey,

Congratulations on the job. I seem to remember alot of people here saying that your criteria for a salaried RE job was unrealistic to the point of fantasy. Well it seems like they were wrong about that. Hmm…I wonder what else they are wrong about?
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Unbelievable
November 16th, 2006 at 2:20 pm

Casey leave the comma out

http://www.ablebuyer.com/

Why do you want to mess around in Real Estate ? I think you’ve already ruined your chances at being a “Good Brand”.
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Mr. Flipper
November 16th, 2006 at 2:22 pm

“Free Advice”,

I agree with everything you wrote about “marginal utility” in dealing with fixer properties. I hadn’t read that bit from Reed that in the fixer business, one is selling “fixers”, not buying them. However that sums up the essence of a bird dog pattern in this business.

Reed’s take is not only the least risky approach for newbies, but it is also the fastest way to make some money, without having a lot of money to start with.

The distinctions and illustrations you offered concerning “value” vs “utility” is worthy of memorization!

Really good input!
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Willing Suspension of Disbelief
November 16th, 2006 at 2:26 pm

Sputnik:

Casey’s probably never seen Glenngarry Glen Ross. Too bad. That movie’s almost as depressingly hilarious as this blog.

What Casey needs is some of the “good” leads before Mitch and Murray come down on him. He needs to learn what “ABC” and “AIDA” mean!

Blake (Alec Baldwin): We’re adding a little something to this month’s sales contest. As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody want to see second prize?
[Holds up prize]
Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is YOU’RE FIRED.

PUT THAT COFFEE DOWN. Coffee is for closers.
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yougottabekiddingme
November 16th, 2006 at 2:55 pm

Some did math and ended up saying that $300 per month was $18.75 per hour.

Sorry, not quite right.

There are 4.3 weeks per month, so at 40 hours per week, to earn $3000 per month the hourly rate is $17.45.

$17.45 per hour.

For a programmer.

I suppose it’s a start, but for the man too good to deal with managing the renovations on his own properties, too good for dealing with renters when it might have helped - I just don’t buy it.
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Loan Runner
November 16th, 2006 at 3:00 pm

Casey,

I just want to wish you the best of luck. I notice that there
are people on these blogs who continuously give negative and hurtful criticism, where it’s not needed. Many said “Get a real job, save your wife’s credit”….and now that you have found a “real job” or something remotely close, you are still catching grief. Now I don’t feel that you were ethicallyright in
your past decisions regarding real estate, but as a loan officer I can atest that you weren’t the only person that manipulated the system for financial gain.

I would like to leave you with a final word:
“The biggest success stories come from those who faced enormous odds and overcame in the midst of losing everything.”

Just learn from your mistakes and may God bless…
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Mike
November 16th, 2006 at 3:08 pm

Ass, you said that you borrowed 3 grand from your friend and here you say it’s 2 grand. It’s tough keeping track of the fibs, right?

What a dick
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ROKIT88
November 16th, 2006 at 3:23 pm

Casey makes a step in the right direction, hooray. And he is working for a steady paycheck without having to leave his blue ball behind.

HI-larious

Casey, all of the 9-5 and time for your “spare time hobbies/personal life” is very questionable, most of the get rich faster people spend almost all of their waking time either pinching pennies or working on their jobs. Getting rich quick is your hobby, if you really want it you will need to spend all of your time doing it, period.

If not, follow the standard advice for retiring rich, nice and slowly. Earn, save, and invest, in that order.

You can’t have it both ways.
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Stinks Like Fish
November 16th, 2006 at 3:43 pm

I seriously doubt Casey is doing this above board…as in filling in the required income forms and so forth. He won’t answer if the 3K is before or after taxes.

His expenses each month include $1000 for his wife’s credit cards that he keeps up to date, and $500 for rent.

So what do you think he’ll do with the remaining $1500? Pay off some of his credit cards? He’s stated so many times before that if he can’t cover the minimum payments there’s no point in trying.

So he’ll put that $1500 towards “living expenses”. Probably his cell phone, his wife’s cell phone, the internet bill, and gas for his new wheels.

How is he going to handle the credit card debt? He’s been avoiding it for months now.
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standallamazed
November 16th, 2006 at 4:16 pm

JM,

Wow, Casey is now a criminal with a job. Yes, we should all be so proud of him. Perhaps if he had downs syndrome I would view this as some stunning accomplishment, and agree that he was sure showing us how wrong we were.

You seem to be the type of person that would be impressed by the saying, “but at least he doesn’t beat me.”
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Sure
November 16th, 2006 at 4:48 pm

I make $25,000 a week! Ask me how!
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Free advice
November 16th, 2006 at 4:53 pm

Mike:

He paid back one grand.
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cLuStEr_fK
November 16th, 2006 at 4:55 pm

On your website, “you buy houses fast! No equity, no problem!”
Really? Do you give the sellers Monopoly money?
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Anomalous Blowhard
November 16th, 2006 at 4:55 pm

Mike: He repaid $1k of the loan.
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dumber and dumber
November 16th, 2006 at 5:07 pm

casey, one month trial, the guy realizes that he take advantage of you,
one month of IT work, making his coffee and revamping his computers youll find yourself out on your ass…

remember when you were a kid and some other kid just hung out with the hottie under the bleachers,,, he said smell my finger and you smelled it, we all did when we were that young,,,

its just that casey, your a grown man now, and your being taken for a ride by another loser who says ‘wanna smell my finger’ i just dipped it in some real estate, and your dying for a whiff…

your such a poor little puppydog that you dont realize if someone says be my bitch for one month thats NOT A JOB…

a real job says YOUR HIRED….

im sure youll be flipping properties and getting a nice commision over that last week after xmas until new years eve…good luck

maybe youll be able to sell your secret santa gift on ebay to pay back your creditors,

theres alot of tightwad regifting suggestions online, im sure you’ll want to to give your wife something too…

by the way im a brain surgeon, i went to a seminar and use google, so obviously im knowledgable in the subject!
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walt526
November 16th, 2006 at 6:42 pm

Definitely not the perfect job, but its a start. Although its more of a good second job, really. If you can manage your schedule to work your ~40 hours a week mostly during evenings and weekends, then you should be able to take on another job during the workday. $3k/month isn’t going to come close to what you and your wife need, though.

Have you started squirreling money away for your legal defense? Seriously, if you want to stay out a jail, you’ll need at least a $10k cash retainer to get a decent lawyer to even consider taking you on as a client. Rent, gas, eat (very cheaply), and savings for your legal defense should be the only thing that your paycheck is going toward. Forget the credit card minimum (your and your wife’s FICOs are doomed regardless), the cash is better spent on a quality lawyer.

I did have to laugh when you claimed to be a workaholic. Your one of the laziest guys that I know of. At least you’re doing something now, though.
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ha38349
November 16th, 2006 at 7:45 pm

Casey, If he doesn’t withhold taxes make sure you put the money aside to pay. You really shouldn’t get yourself in any deeper on the tax liability.
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Rancid
November 16th, 2006 at 8:00 pm

I would like to leave you with a final word:
“The biggest success stories come from those who faced enormous odds and overcame in the midst of losing everything.”

Hey, you forgot the one where the biggest failure stories (you are reading a blog about one) come from those who faced enormous odds, gambled and while on the very edge of losing everything…DID in fact lose everything.

Then again, you are a loan officer eh? Must be getting clsoe to that edge eh?

Stop reading the self help inspirational books and STFU
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Mike
November 16th, 2006 at 8:17 pm

I missed that grand repayment. I apologize for that. So as a provider for his wifem do you think that the might K has kept up the health insurance?
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The Real Deal
November 16th, 2006 at 8:45 pm

I am amazed that so many people with so little real estate eperience feel so well qualified to comment on the real estate market and the ethics and practicalities. I am a real estate investor, a real estate broker, and am going to avoid talking about how much I make since that doesn’t by itself constitute authority - I know more then a few people who aren;t real bright and made buckets of money in real estate - honestly without taking advantage of anyone However I have been through 35 years of ups and downs in the real estate marketplace, as a real estate agent, broker, instructor, and investor I think I can tell you a few things with some authority.
1. There is no “national” real estate marketplace and trying to compare real estate with national markets like stocks is an absurd effort which began when the financial columnists around the country attempted to understand the real estate market as an entity instead of recognizing that each local real estate market has its own dynamics fueled by the age of the population, local ecnomics, population demographics, and lots of other local influences which I am too tired to list here. If you want to talk about what the real estate market is doing, you need to talk about what it is doing in a psecific area, not in broad generalities.
2. David Lereah isn’t a shill, he’s actually a pretty bright economist who has better access to better information thenm most of his peers. And he woul be the first to tell you that the real estate market in L.A. is differene then the market in Detroit, or Chicago, or Miami, or Boston, or Philadelphia, or…well I hope you get the idea. Each one of those metro areas will be impacted differently. But as long as people need to rent, and want to own, there will be an active market. And with interest rates still at such an affordable rate, long term investors will make out well. And the professionals who have been doing this for years are out there buying right now!
3. You can make good money by investing in real estate if you follow basic common sense rules about choosing what you buy and what you do with it, try to sell it as is to another investor, repair and sell it, repair and keep it to rent, etc/ There’s lots of ways to make money in every real estate market, but it takes some thought, some planning and some resources. (And it doesn’t hurt to have a plan B in place if something goes wrong)
4. Glengarry Glen Ross is a great play - and a great movie (the Baldwin scene that was quoted earlier was actually written for him and is not part of the original play- it is however one of the best scenes in the movie) But if there is a point to that speech it is that your success , or lack of it comes from your efforts rather then from the “good leads”.
5. This is not only a good time to buy real estate investments, it may be the best time in the past few years - newbie investors had hurt the market for the experienced investors by paying more for properties then they would support because they thought the market would protect them, and it (the local market) was so active it was forgiving or mistakes - now you actually need to think about what you buy- just remember that the profit in a real estate deal is made when you buy it - not when you sell it
6. Real Estate is better viewed as a long term investment- or a best a mid term investment -
7. Stop picking on Casey - he has enough problems, and like all of the rest of us, he needs to find his own way out of them - and my only advice to him is to use his common sense. If something seems too good to be true - it just may be - If you don’t understand why something is structured the way it is, get a better explanation or take a pass on it.
8. Who cares if he only gets paid for a month - if he needs money and this is how he gets it good for him, and let him worry about paying his own taxes.
9. Rich Dad Smich Dad - I’m not real big on real estate gurus, bit I do agree with him that people don’t get generally get rich working for wages
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paul
November 16th, 2006 at 8:54 pm

“I Got a Real Estate Job!”

Close, but if you said:

“I Got a Real Job!”

we’d be more impressed…
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star
November 16th, 2006 at 9:14 pm

FINALLY!

That 3k/month should take some pressure off of you.
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The Man
November 16th, 2006 at 9:40 pm

Charlie Fox says,

“On your website, “you buy houses fast! No equity, no problem!” Really? Do you give the sellers Monopoly money? ”

OK, what is going on here is fairly obvious. Casey isn’t providing capital. He’s providing an investor if he can talk the potential seller down to a level where he knows his investor will buy the property. If he can make the deal, he can get a cut. This is the idea behind “birddoging” as he has been putting it. The potential investor? Probably Chris (new boss) or the Rich Dad.

One problem with this idea are that it will be hard to find potential sellers with just a website when the competitors buy huge billboards and ads on the most popular radio shows during drive time screaming “WE BUY UGLY HOUSES!” (at least they do this where I live). Another is simply trying to hook up a deal in a market where buyers and sellers already have wildly divergent views on the value of any given property.
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Michael Cooke
November 16th, 2006 at 11:11 pm

DIOMEDES

“And for full disclosure, I make $110k a year base salary. With bonus, employee stock purchase plans and stock options), I usually bring in closer to $130k per year. I am not trying to boast; I am merely indicating the lucrative nature of that industry.”

Oh Please! Are you being honest sir? Listen its ok. You don’t have to be a balloon. You don’t have to over inflate yourself.

I’m in the import/export field and I see allot of jobs being sent overseas. ALOT. Most are in manufacturing. But next to that is I.T. I don’t understand how you are making this much money as you claim. Bill Clinton isn’t President anymore George Ba-Buush is. I’ve never seen so many jobs being sent overseas in my life…

Whets so hot about your area of expertise? I hate to say this but I know a company in Calcutta that employs 35 Indians that all work for an average of 19k per year. They are “programmers” and “would be much pleased to write some code for you”. Most computer guys I know here in the US are BEGGING for work.

Why do you feel the need to lie? You don’t make $130k per year. Just come clean already. There are a million other guys that have “10 years experiance”. You cannot pull this wool over on me… You’re just trying to show Casey what he “could” potentially make at the peak of his career in computers.

130k per year. What you meant is I “feel” I’m worth 130k per year. Be honest dude…8)
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mejustme
November 16th, 2006 at 11:33 pm

Casey said: Yes, I’m still working at my local rich dad’s office for now since I’m an independent contractor and have flexibility in my work location. I meet with Chris at his office location when necessary. That may or may not change going forward. We’ll see.

I think that should change. Some people are able to focus and stay on task, as they say, but you aren’t. You want to blog, you want to look for RE deals, you don’t want to work on a database. Being in the office for set hours, full days, makes you an employee, part of the team.

Otherwise I see this going the way of your local rich dad deal: things just falling apart, not working out as planned because other stuff gets in the way.

BTW, I don’t think you mentioned before that you’re an independent contractor. So this isn’t a “real” job. And he’s not taking taxes out. And you’re probably not getting a set paycheck on a set payday. Uh oh. How is he going to figure out if you deserve $3,000 a month?

As for .Net and programming, isn’t all that being outsourced right now?
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Jobu
November 17th, 2006 at 8:14 am

Michael Cooke,
There are a number of IT jobs that pay over 100k per year. It is true that the ‘assembly line’ programming jobs are being sent overseas in large numbers. You don’t get paid 100k being a ‘heads down’ programmer, which is what most of the outsourced jobs are such as the people in India. It is also true that there are far less 100k jobs in IT than there were in the go-go late 90’s when huge numbers of IT people were jumping jobs every six months for higher pay that was being handed out by companies flush with cash from IPO’s. The people being paid the high dollars now are typically system architects, designers, team leads, etc that have much more responsibility. They oversee the development teams. They bring more expertise to the table than just programming and perform multiple job functions, although many of those folks program as well. Consultants who come in and design systems to solve enterprise problems for companies get top dollar. I know a number of individuals in the industry who make over 100k base plus bonuses. The high dollar jobs are there but not for individuals like Casey, though I have no doubt that if he has a marketable skill set, he could make more than 36k.
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NoVa Sideliner
November 17th, 2006 at 8:29 am

Michael Cooke rags on poor (er not poor) DIOMEDES who claims he makes $110k a year base salary, closer to $130k with bonus:

Why do you feel the need to lie? You don’t make $130k per year. Just come clean already.

I doubt he’s lying. Michael, there are HORDES of IT programmers making that much money in this country, even while at the same time similar jobs are being outsourced. I work with lots of people making that. I don’t, but I’m close enough to be comfortable.

Now maybe that’s a dreamily impossible salary in your part of the country, but in the high-wage/high-cost coastal cities, it’s quite attainable. Heck, I even know people, lots of ‘em, in Texas making that.

Casey, if you are good at what you do in IT and get years of good, dependable experience behind you, you can live as comfortable a life as that amount of money will bring — though I suspect you’ll get bored and restless instead, and opt for a low chance of higher gains elsewhere.

Michael the doubter, stop watching Lou Dobbs every night. There are PLENTY of jobs paying over $100k in this country for those lucky enough to have a good education and working hard enough to build upon it.
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Big Cheese
November 17th, 2006 at 8:50 am

Michael Cook,

I very much believe Diomedes as $130K is a reasonable total compensation package if you live in the Bay area or many other places today with 10 years experience. It’s good money and it is true that many jobs are being outsourced but there are still good high paying jobs out there if you are patient and lucky.

I have 13 years work experience and run a factory overseas in Asia- I make a very good salary… about $250K including housing allowance plus bonus. You just need to look around to get a great job.

BTW, I think Casey can do that too but it does need several years of effort and actively managing your career!

Big Cheese
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anonymous nerd
November 17th, 2006 at 9:48 am

“Historically, in housing, the duration of the downturn often matches the duration of the downturn.”

I couldn’t agree more.
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Congrats
November 17th, 2006 at 10:08 am

Congratulations on the job. And ignore the naysayers and the negative nancies with their notorious negativitude. Maybe $3K isn’t top pay, but it’s better than nothing (which, from this blog, is what it seems like you’ve been doing so far.)

Anyway, I for one think this is the best decision you’ve made yet by far. (Again, not saying much.) I would definitely advise forgetting about RE though. You’re much more suited for flipping burgers than flipping houses. Stick with the IT.
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C guy
November 17th, 2006 at 10:14 am

$130k a year for that (.NET) skillset isnt unheard of but its rare.

As a software engineer (straight C, RT mission critical systems, embedded systems) I pull in just under $80k a year, with
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The Man
November 17th, 2006 at 10:43 am

Michael Cooke,

You are engaged in idle speculation and seem to have an inability to follow links. I posted links previously in this thread showing jobs currently posted on Monster.com in the $80-$110 range. I uncovered these by reading just the first half page of the results of a broad search that returned dozens of pages. You can find hundreds of such posting in the salary range of at least $80+ by taking the time to look. Next month there will be hundreds more.

As far as some of the prior writers have noted, there are many foreign programmers. However, many projects simply cannot be outsourced because of time constraints and the overhead of sending small or complex projects overseas. Being a successful programmer now means being a successful “architect” and having business skills to compliment technical skills.

The jobs still exist, they have simply transformed themselves over the past few years to be more business-centric. Of course, programmers are uniquely suited to transform skills. We generally have to do it every five years anyway.
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Mike
November 17th, 2006 at 11:05 am

Plenty of people are making 100k in IT these days. 100k is not what it used to be on the coasts.No matter the abilities of off-shore programmers there will always be jobs here. There are some things that you just need to be face to face for. I’ve found the abilities of our off-shore personnel to be a little lacking.
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Chris Johnson
November 17th, 2006 at 12:05 pm

“The Man” believes we mortals have an inability to follow links…I understand that by my not being in IT, nor wearing any gear affixed to my belt via plastic holsters, I may appear to not be up to the challenge, but I did follow The Man’s links and saw, like other people here, that those jobs are for people with 5-10 years experience in large companies who will be leading teams of programmers. Which means they’re jobs Casey can aspire to, but not jobs he can actually get now. So what would a programmer with Casey’s level of experience make?
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Mike
November 17th, 2006 at 1:05 pm

What is Casey’s experience? He appears handy but the salary depends on practical experience and areas of focus. Entry level programmers with credible academic background can probably make 40 to 50 pretty easily in NY, maybe more if the academic creds are in a hot area such as .NET
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Chris in Michigan
November 17th, 2006 at 3:53 pm

Yneone : “We’re all very proud of you Casey.”
- Speak for yourself, dingbat.

ROTFLMAO!!!!
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The Man
November 17th, 2006 at 7:14 pm

Chris Johnson,

I only think that Michael Cooke had an inability to follow links. This because of comments above where he expressed incredulity at the idea of programmers making $100K or more after I had posted links offering positions at that level. No offense was intended for any other individual.

I agree with you on the fact that Casey isn’t experienced enough yet for one of these jobs. What I am suggesting is that it would be wise, if he is already going to be doing a programmer’s job, to take that the opportunity to learn .NET in a production environment. Learning while doing and getting paid is best. Good programmers program in any language. Learning a programming language is not nearly as hard as learning a human language. Once you know a procedural and an object-oriented language, you pretty much know them all. The difficulty in understanding the differences between one language and another is more like understanding multiple accents rather than multiple human languages.

Learning .NET would simply position him better to have a second skill that is even more marketable than PHP. If the real estate thing falls through, there is a possibility in taking one of those jobs 80K+ jobs five years down the road (assuming the best set of circumstances).
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Cal
November 18th, 2006 at 12:30 am

I’m a college student day trader and I make on avg. around $1,500 a day. I like to teach people how to trade and learn investment ideas. Check me out.
-Cal
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Mark
November 19th, 2006 at 4:18 am

it’s a shame, in many ways you deserve to lose everything for your thoughtless business plan, your reckless risktaking, and the fact you defrauded your lenders.
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Fred Glick
November 25th, 2006 at 11:49 am

Contact me and I will help finance you to get your DRE sales license so you can origiante mortgages and sell/lsit real estate the proper way!
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Real Estate Listings
December 2nd, 2006 at 2:04 am

links from TechnoratiIt is well to be up before daybreak, for such habits contribute to health, wealth, and wisdom” - Aristotle I got up at noon today, because last night I was having a business meeting until 2am. Now that I’m working with Chris I will be having late night meetings often. Yesterday I got up at 3 PM because I stayed up all night working to meet a deadline. (I no longer work out of my local rich dad’s office but instead work from home.)
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HiiFii Celebrity Entertainment » Double AdSense Income With One Simple Tweak
December 4th, 2006 at 5:48 pm

[…] Casey’s blog has enough traffic that he should be able to make $3,000 or more per month if he monetizes it correctly. Add this to the $3,000 income he is making from his current job and the combined total could help him a lot – especially in light of this recent post where he states he needed to make some serious money quickly, or risk having his wife leave him. She asked me if I have a plan. The base salary with Chris is not enough. She is saying that almost three years of marriage on a financial roller-coaster is getting old. […]
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John Chow dot Com The Miscellaneous Ramblings of a Dot Com Mogul
December 4th, 2006 at 11:54 pm

links from Technorati www.IamFacingForeclosure.com <- my story Casey’s blog has enough traffic that she should be able to making $3,000 or more per month if he monetizes it correctly. Add this to the $3,000 income he is making from his current job and the combined total could help him a lot – especially in light of this recent post where he states he needed to make some serious money quickly, or risk having his wife leave him. She asked me if I have a plan. The base salary with Chris is not

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